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Aug 1, 2014 6:40 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
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Seeds? or caterpillar poop? or something else?
Thumb of 2014-08-02/greene/53ed70

There were about 18 - 22 of these all in an area about 2 feet square, on top of the sandy soil. There were no plants nearby that could have dropped seeds.
I am thinking there may have been a caterpillar (or other insect-y thing) on the oak tree branch, too high up for my eyes, which overhangs the spot where these were found.

The color is a little off but they look similar to the color of alfalfa pellets for rabbits.

Edit:
Identified as the frass (excrement) of the Orange-striped Oakworm - Anisota senatoria.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Last edited by greene Aug 2, 2014 6:59 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 2, 2014 7:26 AM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Sure looks to be excrement from an insect, possibly a hornworm or caterpillar.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Aug 2, 2014 11:56 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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If you look at each of the 'objects' you will see they are quite uniform with longitudinal sections, all seeming to meet in the middle at the ends of the barrel shape. I think this suggests they are not caterpillar dung, so we have to look at possibilities.

It would be unusual for a group of seeds to be in a place where there are no plants.

The most likely answer is as you suggest, something which has come off the oak tree from above. What that something is, is the question.

The structure does look like something excreted, but as said the form is too uniform. It might help if we knew what sort of Oak tree it is, there are all manner of galls which are made by various insects, often wasps, although these don't look like a typical gall I don't think there is any such thing as a typical gall.

The other alternative is they could be some sort of vegetative material from the tree, I know the oak tree I have sheds catkins.

Maybe you could try breaking one up to get a better idea?

Looking at the one on the left, I can see there is 6 equal segments joining at the end. Looking at the one on the right, it looks to be open at the other end.
Last edited by JRsbugs Aug 2, 2014 12:23 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 2, 2014 12:28 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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This 'could' be a clue, I found an Alder which has male and female catkins, the female ones develop into cones. Is there an Oak which does the same?

http://www.historylearningsite...

That I realise sounds like a stupid question, an oak tree makes acorns usually! The question is, are there types of oak which make a different reproductive nut?
Last edited by JRsbugs Aug 2, 2014 12:36 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 2, 2014 3:18 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Greene has found the answer, it is frass from the Orange-striped oakworm (Anisota senatoria)!

I found some photos which show they can make geometrically perfect droppings! Hilarious!

http://web.ncsu.edu/abstract/s...

http://blogs.lifeandscience.or...

http://www.butterfliesandmoths...
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Aug 2, 2014 3:50 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Rabbit Keeper Frugal Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level
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Thank you Janet. You are the greatest. Hurray! Thumbs up

I will now move the two chairs from under the oak tree and find somewhere else to sit in the shade,
perhaps in a frass-free zone in my yard.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
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Aug 2, 2014 4:15 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Wow, geometrically perfect droppings. What'll they think of next? Hilarious! Hilarious!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Aug 2, 2014 5:10 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
You found it Greene, congratulations. Thumbs up

It's all about empowerment, and knowing how to go about identifying something is the beginning of success.

My aim is to help the process, it becomes enormously satisfying when you get results.

Keep one of those chairs handy Greene, and put your outside light on at night when it's good weather so you can stand on the chair to take photos when the moths turn up. Believe me, there is nothing more satisfying than standing on a chair watching moths turn up on a balmy warm night while they flit up the wall or bomb you in their excitement. Hilarious!

Odd thing isn't it Ann, the mind boggles as to what shape it requires to extrude such shapes. A toothpaste tube comes to mind, one of those which make the stripes as it comes out but without the stripes. Rolling on the floor laughing
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Aug 2, 2014 5:16 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing nodding
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Aug 2, 2014 5:32 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
This leads me to the question....why? Why is the frass geometrically perfect? There has to be a reason; nature seldom does anything without a reason.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Aug 2, 2014 5:37 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Aha! The thought comes to mind that in order for the caterpillars not to be noticed, it has to camouflage it's droppings. They might resemble something else which is not palatable!
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Aug 2, 2014 5:43 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
But what would that non palatable thing be?

I'm forever asking why or what. Hilarious! One answer always leads to a question. It's a vicious circle.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Aug 2, 2014 6:16 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Now there's a project for you Ann, I will be waiting to see what you can come up with. Rolling on the floor laughing
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Aug 2, 2014 6:27 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Aug 3, 2014 2:03 PM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
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Maybe the answer is simply : more comfortable , something square coming out of a round tube has to hurt Blinking
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Aug 3, 2014 4:04 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Rabbit Keeper Frugal Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level
Plant Identifier Region: Georgia Native Plants and Wildflowers Composter Garden Sages Bookworm
I found a link that explained that since the oak leaves have so few nutrients the caterpillars digestive tract utilizes the available nutrients ....blah, blah, blah...I got bored and stopped reading. There is some reason for the poop - oops, the frass - to be shaped that way and it has to do with the caterpillars getting their vitamins and minerals.

Either that or caterpillars have a well-developed sense of humor; are up in the oak branches laughing at the humans below who are looking confused.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
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Aug 3, 2014 5:44 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
You always manage to crack me up greene. Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Aug 3, 2014 8:58 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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gardengus said:Maybe the answer is simply : more comfortable , something square coming out of a round tube has to hurt Blinking


When you think about it (in a weird sort of way) caterpillars ARE kind of like a tube of toothpaste.... Big Grin
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Aug 4, 2014 3:59 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
greene said:Either that or caterpillars have a well-developed sense of humor; are up in the oak branches laughing at the humans below who are looking confused.


I vote for that reason! Rolling on the floor laughing

Do you have the link where you found about their eating and excreting habits Greene?
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Aug 4, 2014 5:41 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Rabbit Keeper Frugal Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level
Plant Identifier Region: Georgia Native Plants and Wildflowers Composter Garden Sages Bookworm
I am looking for it. Forgot to bookmark it.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"

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