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Apr 26, 2015 4:05 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Region: Pacific Northwest Permaculture Organic Gardener Region: Oregon Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Herbs Composter Bee Lover Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
Can someone ID this? I have found many of them in my garden. They are just a bit over one inch long. Would you want them in your garden?
Thumb of 2015-04-26/Toni/7f1337
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
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Apr 26, 2015 4:13 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Toni, I don't know what insect it is but before you get rid of it you might want to post the photo on this thread: The thread "April 2015 Butterflies, Moths & Larva" in Gardening for Butterflies, Birds and Bees forum Someone there might recognize it and be able to give an exact ID. It'd be a shame to get rid of it if it happens to be larva or cocoon for a good insect!
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Apr 26, 2015 5:01 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Region: Pacific Northwest Permaculture Organic Gardener Region: Oregon Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Herbs Composter Bee Lover Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
Thank you Lin. I reposted it. Thank you for putting a link that I could access the right thread quickly as I am out in the garden on my phone and couldn't find that thread originally. I would never intentionally hurt anything in my garden, usually not even the pests Hilarious!
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
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Apr 26, 2015 5:23 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Toni, you are welcome. I figured one of the really knowledgeable folks over there will probably recognize it right away and be able to tell you if it's good or bad.

LOL, I've been known to squish first and ask questions later when it comes to bugs. I know I probably killed my share of good bugs over the years. Smiling
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Apr 26, 2015 8:28 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I'm looking forward to seeing an answer to this as well -- I know I've seen those in my garden!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Apr 26, 2015 10:16 PM CST
Name: Celia
West Valley City, Utah (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Photography Irises Plant Identifier Hummingbirder Birds
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Cat Lover Butterflies Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I think they're Hawk Moth pupa. Something in the Sphingidae.
Last edited by Zencat Apr 26, 2015 10:17 PM Icon for preview
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Apr 27, 2015 1:31 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Good eye Celia, it may very well be a variety of Sphinx Moth. Here are a few found in Oregon, scroll down these pages for image comparisons:

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.c...

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.c...

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.c...

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.c...

http://www.silkmoths.bizland.c...
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Apr 27, 2015 2:25 PM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
If you look at Lin's link
http://www.silkmoths.bizland.c...
the pupa appears to have a kind of curly "tail". Does the suspect in question have that? I can't tell from the image.

This one on Bugguide is a more obvious "tail":
http://bugguide.net/node/view/...

We have two threads going for this now, and I suggested on the other one that it might be a cutworm pupa, see:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agricultu...

Only way to be sure what it is is to keep one in a clear jar with a perforated lid and see what emerges from the case. Much easier to ID such critters as adults.
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Apr 27, 2015 2:34 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Region: Pacific Northwest Permaculture Organic Gardener Region: Oregon Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Herbs Composter Bee Lover Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
@sooby no it doesn't have a curly tail.
I am afraid I will kill it if I put it in a jar to hatch.... Maybe I will get brave... Crying
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
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Apr 27, 2015 2:35 PM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
If you just scoop it up with a bit of soil it should be fine, don't even need to touch it Smiling If it is a cutworm you actually might want to kill it Hilarious!
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Apr 27, 2015 6:36 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Ahhh -- thanks for this info! I believe that the ones I've seen are likely from tomato hornworms, which I only rather recently learned become "hummingbird moths." I'm a bit conflicted on this one, because I like the moths, the worms not so much... maybe I need to plant a couple of tomatoes specifically for the hornworms and move all the cats to those plants Whistling
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Apr 27, 2015 9:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Region: Pacific Northwest Permaculture Organic Gardener Region: Oregon Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Herbs Composter Bee Lover Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
Oh my gosh! I didn't know hummingbird moths were tomato horn worms! Why have I seen hummingbird moths in the mountains where no tomatoes ever lived...? I definitely couldn't kill those - they are awesome
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
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Apr 27, 2015 9:10 PM CST
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
I have no use for internet bullies!
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Rabbit Keeper Frugal Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level
Plant Identifier Region: Georgia Native Plants and Wildflowers Composter Garden Sages Bookworm
I'm no expert ( Rolling on the floor laughing still getting over the embarrassment of not knowing insect frass when I saw...and planted it *Blush* ) but would it help us to know what type of plants grow near where this was found? and in what type of soil?

Please consider putting it in a jar as was recommended. We would all like to see what emerges. Thank You!
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
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Apr 27, 2015 9:42 PM CST
Name: Celia
West Valley City, Utah (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Photography Irises Plant Identifier Hummingbirder Birds
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Cat Lover Butterflies Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Yes, please! I agree Put it in a jar so we know for sure.
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Apr 28, 2015 7:20 AM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Toni said:Oh my gosh! I didn't know hummingbird moths were tomato horn worms! Why have I seen hummingbird moths in the mountains where no tomatoes ever lived...? I definitely couldn't kill those - they are awesome


Toni, I just learned this last year -- I had some damage on my tomato plants and in the process of trying to figure out what was doing it, having never seen the hornworms here before, found that it was not only hornworms on the plants but also that the hummer moths I had been seeing in my flowers (also unusual, I had seen them but not here at home) came from those caterpillars! Kind of like the year I discovered that what I considered to be nasty-looking, hairy caterpillars infesting my borage and petunias were actually Painted Lady butterfly babies Blinking

http://texasbutterflyranch.com...

(There are quite a few different sphinx moths, so not just from the tomato hornworm...)

Smiling
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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May 1, 2015 7:21 AM CST
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier
If you are finding them in the veggie patch... I think that tomato horn worm (manducca sexta) is likely.
They're not the gorgeous hummingbird moth...
But they are still very cool.
I took some pictures last year...
http://gardens-in-the-sand.blo...

When I get caterpillars on the tomatoes, I might move them to the datura... Or to the black nightshade... They will often show up on the alternate host plants without my help. Smiling
Last edited by stone May 1, 2015 7:30 AM Icon for preview
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May 1, 2015 7:35 AM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
From these pictures of tomato hornworm pupa, unfortunately doesn't match:

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/crea...
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May 1, 2015 8:44 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Toni Melvin
Sherwood Oregon (Zone 8a)
Beekeeper Region: Pacific Northwest Permaculture Organic Gardener Region: Oregon Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Herbs Composter Bee Lover Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Level 1
@sooby That link was very interesting. Thank You!
Toni
I aspire to be the person my dog thinks I am
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May 1, 2015 9:43 PM CST
Name: Jean
Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier The WITWIT Badge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages
Toni, I thought you might find this link useful to you. Celia is right, it is probably one of the "hawkmoth" pupas. This link catalogs all the moths found in the PNW and has great pictures.

http://pnwmoths.biol.wwu.edu/
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May 2, 2015 7:01 AM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
Toni said:@sooby That link was very interesting. Thank You!


Glad it was useful. It does rule out hornworms since your pupa doesn't have the "jug handle" proboscis. Apparently there are some Sphingidae that don't have this so can't rule out the family altogether I guess. I also don't think we can rule out cutworm/armyworm (Noctuidae) relatives just yet either. Did you happen to keep the pupa in captivity? If not I guess we'll never know.........

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