There are some fields that are valuable for permaculture types and I want to add them to some plants in the database. Can I get some feedback on the proposed additions to the Primary Plant Details? Especially from @zuzu @Calif_Sue @KentPfeiffer and @eclayne

Pollinators (Checkbox)
Self
Various insects
Wind
Bees
Bumblebees
Birds
Bats
Flies
Midges
Moths and Butterflies
Beetles
Water
Wasps
Hoverflies
Other (Magic Text field)

Under "Propagation: Seeds" add checkbox for:
"Self Fertile" (Pulldown for Yes or No)

Soil Preference:
Light (Sandy)
Medium (Loam)
Heavy (Clay)
Well Drained

pH:
Acidic
Neutral
Basic
(Or do we want to get even more specific than that and have an actual pH range?)


Water needs (this might make "Uses: Suitable for xeriscaping" obsolete but I don't see a problem with that):
In Water
Wet
Wet Mesic
Mesic
Dry Mesic
Dry


Growth rate:
Fast
Average
Slow

Might consider adding checkboxes for Bats and Hummingbirds (and maybe Other Birds?) in the Pollinators field.

I vote for an actual range in the pH field.

I'd prefer:

In Water
Wet
Wet Mesic
Mesic
Dry Mesic
Dry

checkboxes in the Water Needs field, but can understand why you might not want to go that direction.

Growth rate might be problematic because it's a relative measure that depends greatly on what you are measuring it against. Red oak is a relatively slow growing tree, compared to a cottonwood, but pretty fast compared to a bur oak.

Ohh, I like this! there have been times where I was looking elsewhere for data to add here and there were references of soil types and watering needs.

On soil and water needs, is that the best title? I was thinking something more like 'soil recommendation' so someone doesn't think it in terms of an absolute need to grow a certain plant.

Maybe "Preferred Water" and "Preferred Soil"?

KentPfeiffer said:I vote for an actual range in the pH field.

If we keep it in checkbox form it will let people use the advanced search for find plants that match. Maybe the solution is to have the various pH ranges as checkboxes?

We'll do water needs in checkbox format (I think that's what you're proposing, too)

I see your point on the growth rate. We may just leave that out.

Your other suggestions have been incorporated into my post above.

These would be nice database additions!

I'd also like to see more detail in the Ph field as well as a checkbox structure. If we have checkboxes in 1/2 point increments could they be displayed as a range? ex. If I check (5.5, 6, 6.5, 7); can it be displayed as 5.5 - 7?

I'd propose we add a soil type "Airy" for lack of a better term.

I can display checkboxes as a range, yes.

I added Airy to my proposal above.

Can we add a data point for "Tolerates foot traffic"?

Sure, I went ahead and added that to the architecture under Miscellaneous.

Ok, you all check my first post in this thread for the current status of the proposal and give me a thumbs up or down.

eclayne said:

I'd propose we add a soil type "Airy" for lack of a better term.

How about "Well Drained" instead? You often see woodland plants as preferring "moist, but well drained soil". Or, are you driving at something completely different, Evan?

I'm a little confused about the soil preferences because I have sandy loam, and I see that term much more often than "sandy" or "loam." If plants prefer sandy loam, and I believe most plants do, which of these would we check?

That might work Kent. Those plants which thrive in forest duff and for which loam, sand or sandy loams aren't ideal as they can hold too much water. The roots need air circulation or the plant can suffer.

I've changed Airy to Well Drained.

zuzu said:I'm a little confused about the soil preferences because I have sandy loam, and I see that term much more often than "sandy" or "loam." If plants prefer sandy loam, and I believe most plants do, which of these would we check?

For those typical plants, "Sandy Loam" would be checked off. There are some plants that like sandy soil and for them it would have simply "Sandy" checked off.

Some plants do equally well in all soils so all 3 types would be checked off.

Soil types are sand silt and clay. Loam is a combination of the three. Depending on the source is equal part of each or equal parts sand and silt with a smaller portion clay such as 40% - 40% - 20%. Depending on the mix, the term loam can be further describe by the content such as sandy loam, silty loam, clay loam, silty clay loam, sandy clay loam.

I'm starting to think we should leave the soil needs out then.

I was confused because you didn't have a checkbox for sandy loam. These are the choices shown in your first post:

Soil Preference:
Light (Sandy)
Medium (Loam)
Heavy (Clay)
Well Drained

It's a bit of an old fashioned way of thinking about soils, but this might help:



It's how soil scientists used to classify soils (some still do), although it misses all of the really important aspects that distinguish "soil" from "dirt".

I really like the idea of having the different designations for soil type.