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Jan 30, 2015 11:56 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Butterflies Vegetable Grower Keeper of Poultry Irises Keeps Horses Dog Lover
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Wisconsin Celebrating Gardening: 2015
https://meadowcreature.com/bro...

Has anyone used these? The idea is to loosen the soil without bringing up weed seeds. Wonder how that works.
Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reason.
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Jan 30, 2015 10:35 PM CST
Name: Claud
Water Valley, Ms (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member
Sorry Tom, but the idea is bassacwards. If you are familiar with a breaking plow which is used to start the preparation of fallow ground for cultivation, it turns over the top several inches (usually 8" -10") of soil and pulverizes it. This aerates the soil, breaks up the sod while at the same time burying the millions of seeds on the surface too deep for most of them to germinate, but don't feel sorry for the poor seed as enough escape the burying to make new ground a challenge.

If you have access to household current one of these is easier to use and a better value: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ear...

I just bought one and it works like a charm. It only weighs 23 pounds, but don't let the weight fool you, it tears through sod and packed dirt. It won't work on rocky ground but the tool you're looking at won't either.

I lucked out. The only one left in stock was the display, but it was up off the floor where customers couldn't mess with it so it was like new. The department manager knocked the price down to $120 and then the store gave me another 10% veterans discount which brought it down to $108. Plus it does an excellent job as a power cultivator. With the wheels down it's easy to control where the tines go and how deep. Hope this helps. Claud
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Jan 31, 2015 5:07 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Butterflies Vegetable Grower Keeper of Poultry Irises Keeps Horses Dog Lover
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Wisconsin Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was listening to public radio's talk show called "Garden Talk" where Jean-Martin Fortier was a guest, and he is the author of a book "The Market Garden". He and his wife have a very successeful business on a limited amount of land, and don't use a tractor. He recommended this tool. I have a Troy build Horse tiller that makes quick work of tilling. I deal with the weed seeds by solarizing with black tarps. It keeps the moiture in the ground,and the weeds germinate, but die for lack of sun. works good for me. I put a layer of compost on top of the soil, then the tarp, and let the worms do the work.
Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reason.
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Jan 31, 2015 5:52 PM CST
Name: Mary Stella
Chester, VA (Zone 7b)
Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Peonies Permaculture Ponds
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Never saw such a thing. I used the Mantis tiller for some years as I could start it, use it, and pull it apart for maintenance in the spring. I don't really have any areas that require that much cultivation for now. If we are successful in getting 5 or 10 acres out in the valley then I will look at lightweight tillers again. I have been very painstakingly digging up section after section of my garden (late last fall) as the weeds got ahead of me for a while. I dug them up, turned the soil, then put down cardboard and playground wood chips on top of that. I will spread preen on top of the chips next spring. That should at least give me a fighting chance of staying ahead of the little beggars. Except for horsetail. That is soooooo invasive and nothing seems to kill it.

I am making notes on what you large gardeners use for various things and hope to have the room to employ some of your tips.
From -60 Alaska to +100 Virginia. Wahoo
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Feb 1, 2015 12:13 AM CST
Name: Claud
Water Valley, Ms (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member
Oberon46 said: I will spread preen on top of the chips next spring. That should at least give me a fighting chance of staying ahead of the little beggars. Except for horsetail. That is soooooo invasive and nothing seems to kill it.

I am making notes on what you large gardeners use for various things and hope to have the room to employ some of your tips.


Are you talking about this or another species? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...

If so, I use a tea made from the shoots on all my vegetables. I use it to prevent mold, mildew, fungal diseases, and blights.

The horsetails you see growing on top of the ground are produced from a perennial underground rhizomatous stem system which can be much deeper than the clumps on the surface.

I hope you will use it rather than kill it, but you can remove it by applying agricultural lime to raise the soil PH to 7.8 - 8. Claud
Last edited by saltmarsh Feb 1, 2015 12:16 AM Icon for preview
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Feb 1, 2015 11:37 AM CST
Name: Mary Stella
Chester, VA (Zone 7b)
Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Peonies Permaculture Ponds
Garden Ideas: Level 2
That's the little devil. I really cannot raise my pH as the majority of my plants like acid conditions around 6.0. But it would be interesting to try it in a part of the garden. If the tea would kill aphids I would gladly brew a gallon or so. Thanks
Mary
From -60 Alaska to +100 Virginia. Wahoo
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Feb 1, 2015 3:50 PM CST
Name: Claud
Water Valley, Ms (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member
Mary, sorry you can't use lime to solve the problem, but here's another solution. Carefully remove the soil from around a clump of horsetails and follow the stem down to the rhizome. Dig up the rhizome and divide it into pieces (any good sized clump should have a rhizome which can be divided into 4 or more pieces). Plant each section in a 4" pot with the rhizome about an inch from the bottom using regular potting mix. Place the pots in a lightly shaded location and water them enough to keep them from drying out. When shoots appear each pot sells for $15 to $20. If you want to pot the existing clumps in larger pots which sell for more just make sure they have a section of rhizome attached. The clumps are not viable without a section of rhizome attached. Do you feel better about them now?

The horsetail tea won't kill your aphids (or any other insects for that matter) but I use a combination spray when I spray.

I use 1 tablespoon of molasses per gallon of spray - this acts as a sticker so it doesn't wash off as easily in the rain and dew and also acts as a foliar feed.

1 tablespoon of Palmolive Orange dishwashing liquid - this acts as a spreader for better coverage on the plants and also as a contact poison for soft-bodied insects such as worms and your aphids.

Concentrated Garlic, Hot Pepper, and Powdered Sage tea - this is mixed with water (1part tea to 1 part water) and confuses and repels most insects. If the moths don't lay their eggs on your plants a lot of your insect problems never start. I also use this spray when I transplant and plant seeds. I spray the area to be planted first to kill any cutworms and grubs on the soil as well as thin out the flea beatles. Then after I plant to mask the odor of the seeds so birds and animals won't dig them up.

Horsetail tea - 2 1/4 cups of tea per gallon of spray as a preventative and foliar feed (it's also rich in nutrients); 4 1/8 cups per gallon of spray for an active infection (I normally keep a spray bottle of this and spray the wound when I prune or when plants are damaged by wind or rugrats.

Lacto Bacillus inocculant - this helps to eliminate harmful bacteria and promote plant growth.

As a separate spray I use Rosemary tea for stuborn insect problems such as spider mites and stink bugs. I use the dishwashing liquid and molasses with the Rosmary tea.

Several other teas for specific insects such as Colorado Potato Beatle.

If you want the tea recipes, I'll post them. Claud

Sorry for hijacking your thread Tom.
Last edited by saltmarsh Feb 1, 2015 3:52 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 1, 2015 5:33 PM CST
Name: Mary Stella
Chester, VA (Zone 7b)
Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Peonies Permaculture Ponds
Garden Ideas: Level 2
I cannot even imagine why anyone would want to buy horsetail. Although now that you mention it I have seen it for sale at some vendor sites.

I could use the spray for spider mites. I don't seem to have any other pests except aphids. I have cut and pasted your recipes above into word and printed.

Thanks for the assist,
Mary
From -60 Alaska to +100 Virginia. Wahoo
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Feb 2, 2015 4:48 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Butterflies Vegetable Grower Keeper of Poultry Irises Keeps Horses Dog Lover
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Wisconsin Celebrating Gardening: 2015
thanks Claud, That's some really useful information. You should probably start a thread on useful natural insectacides, so others find it. This info is too good!
Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reason.
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Feb 2, 2015 9:02 AM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
"I cannot even imagine why anyone would want to buy horsetail. "

I was just going to say the same thing... we have it too, the only thing I've found that has really worked to get rid of it is to keep after it whenever it sprouts -- I've pretty much eliminated it from my garden at this point (improving the soil with a lot of organic matter has probably also helped).

Tom, I've been thinking about getting a broadfork too -- last year I wasn't able to till my garden because the previous fall had been so rainy and wet and then the spring was more of the same, and by the time things had dried out enough for tilling I already had lots of stuff planted. I used my regular garden fork the way a broadfork is used -- not actually digging up the soil, just loosening it, before planting my carrots and beets. I really felt that I had less weeds by not tilling, so this year I'm going to give it a try again -- if I still feel the same way I'll probably get a broadfork next year. I think I first heard of them in Eliot Coleman's "Four Season Harvest" book -- Johnny's Seeds sells them and has an instructional video about using them...
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/med...

Claud, I agree that a thread on the natural insecticides and such would be very welcome !
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Feb 2, 2015 10:20 AM CST
Name: Arlene
Grantville, GA (Zone 8a)
Greenhouse Region: Georgia Garden Sages Organic Gardener Beekeeper Vegetable Grower
Seed Starter Cut Flowers Composter Keeper of Poultry Keeps Goats Avid Green Pages Reviewer
Well, I wasn't going to weigh in here but I just can't help myself. We have a broadfork and it's great for no till areas. We also had a small tiller, my husband called it a ground tickler. Worthless for us with clay.
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Aug 3, 2016 12:58 PM CST
Name: J.R. Baca
Pueblo West Co. ( High Dessert (Zone 6a)
Jumping in a little late here, but the number and styles of forks that I own is at least equal to shovels!, and my meadow creature is my prized possession. I too have hard pan clay and this tool eats it up almost as fast as my rototiller ( and THAT thing is a beast! ) and actually does a better job all around than my tiller, it goes deeper causes less structural damage to the soil, and once you get the hang of them, they're alot of fun.If I had to start all over again the first purchase I'd make would be another meadow creature, probably the biggest one they have.Over the years I have tried to work with nature and given the climate, soil and general conditions around here, no other tool is tougher, stronger or more useful.

Wow! after proof reading this, I realize that I sound like some kind of Ad-man for the company! But when you try to keep your investment in trees, bushes and perennials alive in the concrete I have for soil this thing can handle it without damaging them. I also own a bullystick B.F.
which also has it's uses especially in established areas, so as far as I'm concerned, if you have the need, you really can't go wrong getting a broadfork.
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Aug 3, 2016 1:08 PM CST
Name: Dillard Haley
Augusta Georgia (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level
Never used one a "Broad" fork but it appears to be a super sized version of the traditional spading fork. I have use these for years for small patches and they do an excellent job. It is hard physical labor tho. Given enough time and sweat you could break an acre garden. I don't think many of us would have the time and stamina tho.
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Aug 3, 2016 3:35 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Hi JR!

Bully Tools Broad Fork: page 20 of 26
http://www.bullytools.com/imag...


Johnnies Broadforks:
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/c-1...

Video of a broadfork being used, especially around 2:03.
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/med...

other "tool videos":
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/t-v...
Avatar for josebaca
Aug 3, 2016 4:16 PM CST
Name: J.R. Baca
Pueblo West Co. ( High Dessert (Zone 6a)
Hey Rick! Howadoing?
Long time no hear! 'preciate the links but, with the 2 I have plus a REALLY big potato fork, I think I'm good for now, um , wait,........NO I'm good.

Farmer Dill;
Sir if you have the oomph to handle a garden fork then trust me, a broardfork will be like bliss. All you need is a good sense of balance and a rather firm grip, just so's ya don't fall on your keister. place the tines where you want them then lift and stab down hard, stand on the tool hold onto the handles and rock. When you're in all the way, hold onto the tops of the handle with your feet still on the bar and squat like a kid who holds onto your leg to keep you from moving, as you feel it give, adjust your balance, and there you are! If it won't come back at you, then push your bottom out and away from the fork this does the trick for me, but I'm going a good 220.

Honestly, you could do that acre in half the time and it'll cost you half the sweat. I actually put down my compost AND perlite before then go at it then wet it down. The top dressing and water fill in the cracks and breaks in the soil then I just come back with my fork hoe, and voila! Hurray!
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Aug 6, 2016 11:03 PM CST
Name: Cybrczch
SE Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Region: Nebraska Vegetable Grower
I used a broadfork to dig up a community garden plot in the fall a few years ago. A little work, but it broke up the clay loam fairly well. One other benefit was that the plot was infested with bindweed - while a tiller just chopped up the roots, all of which would then sprout later, the broadfork pulled up the roots whole and I was able to pull them out of the plot - while I didn't get rid of all of it, it really cut down on it. Plus, unlike my little tiller, it didn't throw the dirt around and out of my border.
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Jan 6, 2017 9:22 AM CST
Southeast US (Zone 7b)
Birds Organic Gardener Permaculture Vegetable Grower Dog Lover Keeps Goats
Keeps Horses Keeper of Poultry Beekeeper Canning and food preservation Garden Photography
I love my broad fork! I have been no till for 4 years now and I use the broad fork to keep the clay soil underneath broken open to allow water and oxygen down deep. I do not turn the soil, only break it open to allow water penetration. This method does not kill the worms nor does it allow the weed seed to get a hold. I have very little weeds to deal with since going no-till and using the broad fork.

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