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Apr 9, 2015 1:28 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Dog Lover Daylilies Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Hummingbirder
Frogs and Toads Native Plants and Wildflowers Cottage Gardener Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Xeriscape
I've been getting a bit obsessed with annual sunflowers lately. Luckily I have a lot of land to plant all of the seeds that I've ordered. Hilarious! I've noticed that many of them are listed as pollenless, which is great for cut flowers. I just can't figure out how a company is able to provide massive amounts of seeds for a named variety of pollenless flower, if that flower can only be pollinated by a sunflower that produces pollen. The seeds from the pollenless flower would then be hybrid seeds, and wouldn't necessarily look like the plant that the seeds were growing on, if they are anything like many other flowers. I would think that it should be very reasonable to expect that the seeds would not come true. Is that correct? I suppose that all of the seeds are provided from clones, in order for the seeds to be supplied for sale. Or, maybe I'm wrong about that? Last year was my first year growing sunflowers, so I know practically nothing about them, other than I love them.

I've ordered a few pollenless varieties, only because they are pretty. I am not one to keep cut flowers in the house, but I do love collecting seeds! It will be interesting to see what comes from the seeds, if I get any, and if I'm able to grow them out next year. Have any of your grown seeds from pollenless sunflowers, and did you get anything totally different than the parent plant?
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May 8, 2015 9:08 AM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
Hey Natalie. Heavens, it's a month since you posted this question and nobody replied? I am no help because I'm growing sunflowers from seed for the first time and I was just looking for a thread about sunflowers. It sounds like you're going to have to do your own research on this, or maybe ask the seed source people?

But I have a question - I planted a packet of decorative sunflowers under my birdfeeder because not much else will grow there - possibly all the sunflower shells are making the soil inhospitable? Anyway, my reasoning was that at least sunflowers will grow there so I went for it. They are growing like crazy, nearly 3ft. tall now but not branching yet. Since I'm growing them for flowers, I'd rather have more, smaller flowers than one big one on each plant. So is it ok to pinch out the growing tip to make them branch?
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Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
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Sep 6, 2018 2:56 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
I was wondering if it's pollenless, how do they sell seeds to produce the same color? A hybrid using other sunflower pollen should produce something different, yet these seeds are the same color. Is there perhaps a pollen version only breeders have that is the same variety just with pollen?
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Nov 25, 2018 11:39 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
keithp2012 said:I was wondering if it's pollenless, how do they sell seeds to produce the same color? A hybrid using other sunflower pollen should produce something different, yet these seeds are the same color. Is there perhaps a pollen version only breeders have that is the same variety just with pollen?


Bumping this for help
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Dec 9, 2018 2:29 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
Hi Natalie. Since you aren't getting much response...I will attempt to try. Have you ever had a 'seedless' watermelon, before? It works on a somewhat similar priinciple.. Except that sort of watermelon is a fruit, but it does need pollen exposure, on the female flower, yet only for it to produce the melon.
I suppose the flowers last longer in these varieties. Some flowering plants are hybridized to produce results they want, but that are sterile, & can be parthenocarpic, like most bananas (have no seed) . That s to say, with with those sort of sunflowers, they produce a hybrid seed/seeds but the progeny only need exposure to pollen, yet there isn't any actual pollination/fertilization, which is normally required for viable seed to occur.
Chromosome numbers & genetics can play a role, as can exposure to chemicals (e.g. colchicine, or GA3) as well as self (in)/ compatability. Then you get into topics like 2N, 4n, or diploid & triploid, etc... (Now I wish I had studied in plant Biology!)
So, if a hybridizer wants to cross two different species,with the end results being sterility, they achieved a Sunflower that may last longer, but doesn't cause the unwanted effect of an area beneath, where it makes for other plants more difficult to germinate or grow..... For comparison, a similar process, is even found in animal husbandry, as it can also be accomplished... The name for the sterile result,; is a mule!
I have created sterile hybrid flowers before, but if it isn't perennial, then you have no root to divide to multiply & those sterile annuals just flowers away & then dies, without any seeds, from my observation..
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Dec 12, 2018 10:23 PM CST
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
I love growing sunflowers, I get crested cockertoo birds that love chopping the heads off thou. My evening sunflower hasn't bloomed yet but have got a few of the Giants plus one is a multi header
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Dec 12, 2018 10:35 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
@Natalie. I think the sunflowers you grew from these hybrids may not produce any seeds at all. Unless there is some type of pollen from another sunflower variety that has any pollen capable of actually pollinating it. Nearly the whole point of offering Sunflowers like this, was mainly so as to not be bothered with having any seeds produced whatsoever!
Some people may not want to attract birds, squirrels, or especially any other rodents.
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Jul 5, 2019 12:54 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
@ShawnSteve, you never actually explained how companies produce mass amounts of pollen less varieties? If they cannot be propagated by roots or cuttings then every pollenless flower pollinated by a fertile variety would result a hybrid which would not be anything like the labeled parent variety. So how do they manage to keep these varieties in production year after year?

I did manage to plant pollenless sunflowers and fertilize them by planting a variety with pollen of the same color, but I could not replicate the original cultivar. I do not know how it's possible.
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Jul 5, 2019 1:13 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
They use two different parents, known to create a sterile plant. It can be done with other annuals & perennnials, so that you have to buy that seed every year, if you want that exact one !
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Jul 5, 2019 5:06 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
ShawnSteve said:They use two different parents, known to create a sterile plant. It can be done with other annuals & perennnials, so that you have to buy that seed every year, if you want that exact one !


Ah now I understand! Thank you!
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Jul 5, 2019 6:47 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
No problem. It is just some plants may be able to be hybridized & then it can become confusing to people that just make lists of names of plants & say,"Oh that has to be closely related to THAT one, & must be lumped together, because if those two can make a plant, then they're very closely related *!" & ought to be in the same species, or Genus & change it all up & suddenly, you find out , it just really doesn't always work out that that way. While they may have studied alot about them in book, after book, those people , may actually have NEVER seen or even, even grown it, to know. about it !

Mainly in the minds of those, trying to rearrange things & have them all fit nice & neatly all into a box, as if it's a way to identify something on a piece of paper & do you draw a check mark into that box, & make a mark in it , or not ? Or, do you check off the other next box, ? But living organisms don't always fit so neatly all into a box, like they would like to have them all fit so nice & neatly, into one ,& print it out & publish it ! They just simply read about the plant, never actually grew it, so they are 'book smart" but have no actual experience or knowledge about having actually ever grown it, to know something more about it...then get a consensus & "vote" about it, to come up with a "solution" having "agreed " about it, which doesn't necessarily make it so..
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Jul 5, 2019 7:56 PM CST
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Annuals Butterflies Dahlias Irises Morning Glories Orchids
Peonies Region: United States of America Zinnias
I am not saying, there is anything wrong, about learning & reading books, as that is not my point, at all. What I'm saying, is there are people that make decisions, about what plant, gets classified & how & with which others & then they may actually have never even seen or grown that plant, at all, ever. Yet, make major decisions on classification, by getting a "consensus" & taking a "vote' about it & then suddenly it's all different & we no longer even know what name our plants even may be called ,any more !

Learning by reading is very important & being able to remember it all, is , very important too...You don't always learn by books alone & it may take years, to understand complexities of plants & their biology & vasculature, even from pollination, to forming a viable seed , to being able to germinate it & grow it & how it became fertilized, in the first place & then eventually to mature growth & flowering..Then, there's genetics & all sorts of things that some are even studied, like some ,we may know about nearly their entire genetics., these days..That, is how they ought to be trying to classify plants ! Not some "vote'"or "consensus" but to consider genetics, in the decision making process of classification of plants & how distantly, or closely related, they actually are.. Including chromosome count, & such..I think they have "difficulty" with just figuring out, where some may have originated. So they try to "guess"!
There was once, a rather rapid, "explosion" of flowering plants almost suddenly appearing, considering it happened over a fairly quick, or brief span of time,compared to 'geologic" time, (Compared, to the age of the earth...) & now, they 'think" time existed before some "scientific -big ,bang-" & haven't even solved that, "riddle' yet..
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Jul 20, 2019 7:50 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Here are some of my pollenless sunflowers.
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Jul 24, 2019 1:01 PM CST
Portland, Oregon (Zone 7b)
Snakes
My best guess is... look at like is, a horse and a donkey are both fertile. Cross them, and you get a mule, which is not.
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Aug 5, 2019 3:51 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Another pollenless hybrid. Purple pollenless x pollen yellow, the result this beautiful orange flower! My favorite color!
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Aug 7, 2019 10:53 PM CST
Northern NJ (Zone 7a)
Great results, Keith! Very pretty!
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Aug 13, 2019 8:56 AM CST
Name: John Small
Veracruz (Zone 11a)
Region: Mexico Zinnias
LorettaNJ said:Great results, Keith! Very pretty!

Sunflower???? or zinnia?
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Aug 13, 2019 9:26 AM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
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My local nursery was full of pollenless sunflower seeds. I actually had to hunt for a packet that produced pollen. Pollenless is great for flowers that one wants to bring indoors, and for those with severe allergies, but they don't do much for the bee population. Sad
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
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Aug 13, 2019 2:16 PM CST
Northern NJ (Zone 7a)
@Gardenofeaten - Sunflower.
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Aug 14, 2019 1:35 PM CST
Name: Keith
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Zinnias Plays in the sandbox Roses Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Organic Gardener
Region: New York Native Plants and Wildflowers Lilies Seed Starter Spiders! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
I'm growing pollenless sunflowers and there are no pollen varieties anywhere in the neighborhood. Yet the heads have seeds growing!? Will these be empty being they aren't pollinated?

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