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Feb 1, 2016 8:22 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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The ID could not be established for certain but may be either in the A. parryi complex or A. flexispina. Feb. 2, 2016.

If it is do any of you know which one and how are they distinquished?

Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/12061b
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Last edited by HamiltonSquare Feb 2, 2016 5:31 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 1, 2016 8:55 PM CST
Name: Thijs van Soest
Tempe, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Hmmmm. Difficult one. It could be, but my first sense is no.... because: too few leaves at the size of the plant and too long with not quite the right shape and posture... However, I am by no means an expert, so my impression could be completely wrong, especially taking growing conditions into account - those appear to be relatively lush compared to A. parryi's normal habitat.
Also I do not immediately come up with a suitable alternative (my sense was A. Celsii 'Nova', but that one does not quite fit - leave shape and posture a better fit, but teeth quite a bit off)

This is one site to check out, it may help, but it may also confuse, lots of habitat and cultivation shots of the A. parryi family of plants though: http://www.agaveville.org/view...
I linked to Agave parryi v. parryi, but they have separate entries for the other plants and photo documentation for just about every other Agave. Some people who have seen a lot of Agaves frequent that site.
It is what it is!
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Feb 1, 2016 9:16 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
I think this does get quite a bit of shade and lots of winter rain in a normal year. It is in a large raised bed. I also thought the leaves were to long and not round enough but couldn't find any alternative. Thanks for the link. Nice one. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 1, 2016 9:20 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
I think this does get quite a bit of shade and lots of winter rain in a normal year. It is in a large raised bed. I also thought the leaves were to long and not round enough but couldn't find any alternative. Thanks for the link. Nice one. I tip my hat to you. Here is another in the same location.
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/934121
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 1, 2016 9:53 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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Agave applanata is similar, maybe more grey ..

http://www.agavaceae.com/botan...
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Feb 1, 2016 10:18 PM CST
Name: Thijs van Soest
Tempe, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
A good possibility, Janet! But I again get stuck on the leaf posture, Parryis and also Applanata rarely have that very obvious bend at the base of the leaves and the narrowing towards the base of the leave is not something I have seen in these plants. Still growing conditions could come into play. However at that size A. applanata tends to still have a very pronounced terminal spine, with coloring extending along the leaf edges quite a bit.

Despite the NOID it is a very nice plant, any chance of a more detailed picture?
It is what it is!
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Feb 1, 2016 11:47 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Yes on the more detailed photos. Give me a day or two. None are in bloom. The leaf curvature is very pronounced. Not something I'd taken into account. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 2, 2016 12:01 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Here are a few more photos some with younger plants in clumps. The larger ones have no pups. All the mature plants have a two foot/.6 meters radius. I see there is color extending from the spine down the leaf edge.
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/87d2d2
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/4515e8
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/c5f8f7
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/651264
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Last edited by HamiltonSquare Feb 2, 2016 12:09 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 2, 2016 12:21 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Compare the last pic with the 'adult' photo on the agavaceae site of Agave applanata .. there's several photos at different stages which look very different.

http://www.agavaceae.com/botan...
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Feb 2, 2016 12:37 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Agave flexispina?

Palmbob has posted several Agaves from Huntington, look at the 6th photo (second one of group 2). Look at comments, in particular from agavemonger.

http://www.xericworld.com/foru...

http://kaktusyfabian.webnode.s...
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Feb 2, 2016 3:10 PM CST
Name: Thijs van Soest
Tempe, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
OK, these new pictures suggest A. parryi to me a lot more than the previous two pictures. Still not completely 'classic' parryi looks, but I have seen parryis that look like that.

Except for the 3rd picture that is an imposter.... possibly Agave colorata.
It is what it is!
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Feb 2, 2016 3:23 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
I've been slogging through those same areas. I would have thought it would be much easier for such a distinctive looking agave but not so.... I did find a link to one of these in flower. A. flexispina looks close. Flexible spine? The tip perhaps?

http://www.360cities.net/image...
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 2, 2016 3:26 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Ah cross posted Thijs. Thanks. I've looked at too many Agave today.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 2, 2016 3:35 PM CST
Name: Thijs van Soest
Tempe, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Could be flexispina too... sorry... I looked at that and discounted it for the original pictures because of how the leave is shaped towards its terminal spine, but the newer pictures might be even better for A. flexispina than A. parryi...

The fun or frustration with identifying plants from pictures....
It is what it is!
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Feb 2, 2016 3:46 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Agave parryi has flat tips to the leaves as far as I know, or can see.

The comments I pointed to above from agavemonger:

I believe your "21309" photograph is probably Agave flexispina. Note the "flexed" spines and the recurved leaftips


This agave looks to have recurved leaf tips, and 'flexed' spines.

Compare the photos on the second link I put above, scroll down to see all the photos. Third one from the link.

Thumb of 2016-02-02/JRsbugs/8e5846 Thumb of 2016-02-02/JRsbugs/ef40b7 Thumb of 2016-02-02/JRsbugs/0cfbb1
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Feb 2, 2016 4:30 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
On agave the leaf tip is the spine and it's teeth along the leaf margin. So the comment was somewhat confusing to me...but the teeth do seem to be similarly curved on these and the A. flexispina.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 2, 2016 5:39 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Sorry for the confusion, I meant the 'apex' of the leaf to which the spine is attached. Most are quite flat, some are a little reflexed but not significantly so.

Maybe it's better put that A. flexispina leaves are quite 'cupped' at the apex of the leaf immediately below the spine.

A. parryi has leaves more like a paddle.
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Feb 2, 2016 6:39 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Ah so. Yes I see that there is a little cup below the spine. I think that narrows it down to one. I try to do a little more comparative anatomy and looking for more web confirmation. Thank you, both, sooo much. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Feb 2, 2016 7:02 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Just came across this?
Agave (Agave parryi var. parryi ssp. flexispina) Now lumped under parryi var. parryi. Very close also in this photo from palmbob.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Last edited by Abigail May 17, 2021 4:03 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 2, 2016 7:22 PM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
I guess it depends on who says what, different taxonomists have different views.

The Plant List gives Agave flexispina as an accepted name, oddly enough there are no synonyms given. It also has 3 stars, many of species don't have the full star confidence which makes it sound certain.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tp...

http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPla...

Flexible-Spined Agave (Agave flexispina)

Notice that palmbob's statement was made in 2004.
Last edited by JRsbugs Feb 2, 2016 7:28 PM Icon for preview

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