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Mar 29, 2012 9:59 AM CST
Name: Mary
The dry side of Oregon
Be yourself, you can be no one else
Charter ATP Member Farmer Region: Oregon Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I've learned that it is better to learn from the mistakes of others than to have to make them myself. It saves a lot of time, effort and money. So, thanks Dave, for being willing to share your trials and errors with us. It's going to be great!
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
More ramblings at http://thegatheringplacehome.m...
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Mar 29, 2012 11:09 AM CST
Name: Mary Stella
Chester, VA (Zone 7b)
Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Peonies Permaculture Ponds
Garden Ideas: Level 2
Never saw one before but now both D and I are going to try to build one. thanks for your pioneering steps.
From -60 Alaska to +100 Virginia. Wahoo
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Mar 29, 2012 2:09 PM CST
Name: Mary
The dry side of Oregon
Be yourself, you can be no one else
Charter ATP Member Farmer Region: Oregon Enjoys or suffers cold winters
How large is this spiral? It looks like you will have to have some stepping stones in at least the outer spiral to be able to tend the inner parts without stepping on the soil. This might be a good design for a strawberry planter, or for ornamentals that like to hang over the edge of something like a retaining wall.
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
More ramblings at http://thegatheringplacehome.m...
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Mar 29, 2012 2:19 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
It really is neat looking! I'd love to have something like that! But it's probably not in my future; just the cost of the materials (bricks are a bit dear here), let alone the necessary skills Hilarious! are probably out of my reach. But it certainly is fun to drool! ....and I keep reading this as "huge" kultur... Hilarious!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Mar 29, 2012 3:03 PM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
If I didn't have a pile of free bricks, I wouldn't have done this. Smiling Well, maybe I would have, but I would have used iron ore stones instead (which we have quite a bit of).

MaryE said:How large is this spiral? It looks like you will have to have some stepping stones in at least the outer spiral to be able to tend the inner parts without stepping on the soil.


It is about 7 feet in diameter. Meaning if you are standing outside it, it's a 3 1/2 foot reach to the center. You can place you foot on the first level in order to reach the top. I found that it was quite easy to reach the center.

With the new spiral being made with brick-and-mortar, it'll be strong enough that you could climb it if you wanted.
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Mar 29, 2012 4:36 PM CST
Name: Mary Stella
Chester, VA (Zone 7b)
Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Peonies Permaculture Ponds
Garden Ideas: Level 2
What about drainage. I mean, the center of the spiral will be at least 5' deep by... um How wide is each section exclusive of the brick? Seems like you would want to fill with a little crushed rock or something at the bottom as you go up the spiral if for no other reason than to save on soil. I guess I am still mulling over the one I saw in Gaia's Garden that showed just sort of rounded rock. But after you experience, it would seem like they would just sort of splat out and the spiral would sink like a big pancake. Perplexing
From -60 Alaska to +100 Virginia. Wahoo
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Mar 29, 2012 5:15 PM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
The big pancake imagery is exactly the problem that needs overcoming when making an herb spiral.

For drainage, remember that first the bottom of the spiral is dirt. I dug and poured footers for the walls but other than that it's dirt. Also, I'm putting weep holes in the mortar here and there to facilitate drainage.
Last edited by dave Mar 29, 2012 7:21 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 30, 2012 12:08 PM CST
Name: Chris Powell
Glendale, AZ (Zone 9b)
Living a better life; if times get
Permaculture Vegetable Grower Container Gardener Herbs Organic Gardener Dog Lover
Birds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Region: Southwest Gardening
I split this off where the discussion takes a turn toward training, New thread called "Permaculture Training".
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Apr 1, 2012 10:53 PM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
The spiral is open ended so, it seems to me that the water would just follow the spiral and flow out of the open end. I just finish watching one of the permaculture lectures by Professor Hooker and he showed pictures of a spiral he made and he added a small pond to take advantage of the water flowing from the end. Here are some pics.
Thumb of 2012-04-02/Horntoad/a7dcb4

Thumb of 2012-04-02/Horntoad/09fe5d
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Apr 2, 2012 2:20 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Thanks for sharing that. That's really pretty. I've been considering a pond at the terminus of my spiral, too.
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Apr 2, 2012 6:47 AM CST
Name: Kristi
east Texas pineywoods (Zone 8a)
Herbs Region: Texas Vegetable Grower Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 2
Horntoad ~ could you please elaborate on what you have planted in the herbal spiral? Including the tree that is at the end of your 'river of rocks'?
Believe in yourself even when no one else will. ~ Sasquatch
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Apr 2, 2012 6:58 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Jay said those pics are of a spiral belonging to the lecturer milkmood pointed us to earlier.
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Apr 2, 2012 8:16 AM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
Dave is right, that is not my spiral. I believe he said that the tree was a Japanese Maple.
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Apr 2, 2012 8:19 AM CST
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Avid Green Pages Reviewer
I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Garden Ideas: Master Level Cat Lover Birds Region: Tennessee Echinacea
Jay, is it mortared?
I garden for the pollinators.
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Apr 2, 2012 8:31 AM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
I don't know, he didn't discuss the details in this particular lesson. He was just giving an overview of some of the things he has incorporated into his own yard. Just looking at the picture can't see any signs of mortar.
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Apr 2, 2012 8:36 AM CST
Name: Carole
Clarksville, TN (Zone 6b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Avid Green Pages Reviewer
I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar Garden Ideas: Master Level Cat Lover Birds Region: Tennessee Echinacea
I couldn't either. He left wide gaps between his concrete blocks. Interesting.
I garden for the pollinators.
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Apr 2, 2012 9:32 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
If it indeed has no mortar, I wonder how well the spiral has held up for him.
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Apr 2, 2012 9:50 AM CST
Name: Vicki
North Carolina
I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Region: United States of America
Purslane Garden Art Region: North Carolina Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Master Level Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Maybe he just put a "plop" of mortar as he laid the brick because it's definitely not mortared as you normally would brick.

I'm not seeing how he could have used something like re-rod down through the holes either because of the way the brick is laid. hmmm....

It's very pretty Thumbs up
NATIONAL GARDENING ASSOCIATION ~ Garden Art ~ Purslane & Portulaca ~
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Apr 2, 2012 9:50 AM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
dave said:If it indeed has no mortar, I wonder how well the spiral has held up for him.


One thing I notice is that his spiral appears to be roughly 1/3 the height of yours. His spiral looks like it is no more than about 7 or 8 bricks high at the center. So his would not have nearly the outward pressure that your would have.
wildflowersoftexas.com



Last edited by Horntoad Apr 2, 2012 9:51 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 2, 2012 10:11 AM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
His blocks look much larger than bricks. I think that gives more stability, especially the width of the blocks.

And just MAYBE the way cinder blocks focus all their wieght onto a smaller surface area, and perhaps a rougher surface, increases the frictional force, so they resist sliding sidweays better than bricks.

Maybe.

But I agree with jay: if this one is wider and lress tall than Dave's, it should resist spreading better.

I hope both stand up to frost heaves!

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