I started these rudbeckia hirtas late last summer, using a jug just like in winter, but with extra top vents. I kept them in shade and planted out in fall to over winter. This photo was taken today.

Karen

Wow Karen...That's a stunning clump of ruds! I really like how they play off the shorter plants underneath. Is that herbstonne?
On the other hand...I do not need to plant any more seeds, I do not need to plant...Oh, shoot!

Now this is interesting. . . I never considered starting seeds in WS-type jugs during the summer. But why not? Guess it's like direct sowing, except more protected from pests and predators and with more control over watering, etc. How big were the seedlings when you planted them out in the fall, Karen? Why did you try this method?
Yeah, like I need to start more seeds too, Bev But there are a few bare areas once I take out the summer-flowering annuals in Sept. and October. . .
Tell us more, Karen!

Bev, I'm not sure exactly what "herbstone" is ??? Can you enlighten me? Mine are just my own hirtas, a natural accident that developed from growing a couple of different green-eyed hirtas. One year they mutated to mostly doubles with green eyes. For a couple of years I have harvested seeds only from the doubles, and they have become relatively stable. I do get a few singles, but mostly doubles.

Emily, I first "found" wintersowing at gardenweb. There are lots of experts there who start perennials in summer using the basic WSing method as I described above, for plantout in fall. It works well for anything that doesn't require cold strat. But even some seeds which normally need cold strat to overcome dormancy will do well without if harvested from the plant and sown immediately while extremely fresh (think of columbine, digitalis, which volunteer like crazy in late summer as they fall from the plant...). Sowing in summer and planting out in fall gets them through that first year of sleep-creep-leap without taking up real estate all summer while doing so little. Those ruds were probably an inch tall when I planted them into that bed in fall. To expect them to babysit milk jugs too is pushing my luck. They wouldn't survive.

I rarely do this because I just get lazy and maybe overcome with garden maintenance during summer. Also, we usually go on vacation for a week or two in summer and my neighbors aren't exactly great gardeners. And they're pretty tired of trying to water all my plants in 90° weather in my absence. It takes a couple of hours.

Karen

Hmm, "summersowing". . . .." It works well for anything that doesn't require cold strat," Karen said.

I'm sort of confused; I thought that if you were a perennial that could survive the freezing temps of winter you also required cold stratification to germinate. But I'm probably wrong on this. Could you give me some names of plants in the above category? That would work in summer-jugs and can survive winter, but don't require cold strat? TIA!

I can see more use for my jugs!!

I'm not sure Emily, but not all hardy perennials need cold strat. I look them up on Clothier first. Here's what he says for rud hirta
Rudbeckia fulgida, hirta, and maxima , Sow at 20ºC (68ºF), if no germination in 3-4 wks, move to -4 to +4ºC (24-39ºF) for 2-4 wks

If I summer sowed something and it didn't germinate, I'd just keep the jug moist and let it sit around thru winter , hope for the best. It might sprout in spring.

But even things that are supposed to require cold strat will often sprout without it IF the seeds are very fresh, as in just harvested from your plants. My rud seeds were from the previous fall. I also did some penstemon at the same time. They sprouted but didn't make it thru winter after I planted them out into beds. It was a rare, really wet brutal winter and spring here.

Karen

Karen here is a link for rud herbstonne. Your self crosses are very pretty:)

http://www.northcreeknurseries...

Thanks, Bev. That's not what mine are though. They're just mutant double rud hirtas with green eyes. Mutts, essentially. This pic was last year.

Karen

Nuttin' wrong with mutts, lol! Especially beautiful ones.

Pippi recently resurrected an old thread on gardenweb about summer sowing.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/f...

Karen

Karen, that thread answered all my questions about summersowing and MORE! I read the whole thing. Thank you so much. And the dates of the 2009 thread you cited above start in July, just like now. And Trudi's list of appropriate seeds from her Wintersown.org (cited in the last entry of the thread) expanded on more seeds to SS, too. I'm excited to start some zinnias and see what happens. Not to mention some other summer blooming annuals to fill in for my pansies that are just about over.
(Excuse me while I go rummage in my leftover seed boxes. . . Oh my goodness; I need JUGS!)

Yes, Trudi has a long list of things that don't need cold strat.

Karen

Karen, those are beautiful Ruds. You're making me want to go harvest those seeds from my garden. Are those Irish eyes or Tiger Eyes?

Anita, they're mutts- mutant hirtas, a result of open pollination in my yard.

Karen

Awfully prtetty mutts!

Very pretty. i love mutts. I got a couple.

>> But even things that are supposed to require cold strat will often sprout without it IF the seeds are very fresh, as in just harvested from your plants.

Some varieties of species that are "supposed to" need cold moist stratification sprouted for me, indoors, around 50%.

I was told that "some varieties no longer have strong dormancy requirements", they just might sprout faster or more of them might sprout if you do stratify them.

I was also told that OLD seeds, say 3+ years old, lose the dormancy they used to have.

So I think, unless you only have a little of some seed, that it is well worthwhile trying to start a few whatver way is easiest for you.

And each time you do that and save the seeds, you select for less dormancy.

Corey

P.S. This is just a theory, but storing seeds in a fridge with no dessicant may be unintentional stratification, as the humidty in the fridge changes every time you open the door, and you can even condense humidity on a cold seed packet.

Also, a vegetable crisper drawer maintains HIGHER humidity than the rest of the fridge.

I am guessing it would be ok to sow fresh columbine seeds now right?

Yes, Allison, mine grow like crazy that way. Even ones that fall from the plant volunteer, so you could probably just throw them on the ground where you want them, and keep them moist.

Karen

a friend gave me 3 foot tall columbine seeds.. and a plant.. never saw such a tall one before.. hope they grow!!!