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Jan 4, 2019 11:14 AM CST
Thread OP
Norge
This is what the plant overall looks like:
Thumb of 2019-01-04/Roarstor/bf16b1

I assumed the plant was doing fine, but today I found its first fallen leaf. After that, I started looking more closely, and found several leaves hanging, half broken. One of the leaves weren't broken, but looked kind of dry/sick, and the moment I touched it, it just snapped off.
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Here's a group of photos from the plant that might help:
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The plant is about 3 meters from two south facing windows. I water it a moderate amount about once a week, when the soil is slightly dry. I live in northern Europe, so right now we have maybe 7'ish hours of daylight.

Also there's this, which have been like that since I bought the plant 6 months ago, so I'm not sure if that has had any effect.

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Anyway, thanks for taking the time reading, and possibly helping!
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Jan 4, 2019 12:42 PM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
You can expect some gradual leaf loss as your Polycias acclimates to your home. It is usually the older leaves that die. As they die, they exhibit a variety of discolorations that you are seeing. Don't try to read into anything into the variations of the dying leaves. Give the plant a good shake to get the already dying leaves to fall so you can remove them all at once.

There are some things that can add to the leaf loss that you want to avoid, specifically inadequate light and letting the soil get too dry. Your plant is too far from the window. It must be within a meter of the south window to thrive. In reduced light, it cannot support as many leaves.

Make sure the soil stays moist. It looks like yours is potted in a terra cotta pot. If so, you will need to give it a thorough watering as soon as the surface of the soil feels almost dry or just slightly damp.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Avatar for Roarstor
Jan 4, 2019 1:45 PM CST
Thread OP
Norge
Thank you for the suggestions!

It's currently potted in some kind of plastic pot similar to this, though larger, and probably with a some what different layout on the drainage.


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I gave the plant a fairly good shake. luckily no more leaves fell off, though one leaf snapped off when I lightly felt it.

I just measured the plants distance from the two windows (not that me measuring it will help much). It's 2.5m from the windows. Unfortunately other plants, or furniture, are taking up all suitable spots in the house.

Earlier in the fall, maybe late summer, I observed some nice growth in specific leaves. Since then I've been unable to observe any similar growth, so seeing how leaves suddenly are starting to fall, I'm a bit concerned that the plant is at the beginning of a slow and painful death. Since I'm unable to give the plant a spot better suited to it without sacrificing another plant, I guess I'll just have to cross my fingers when it comes to the light situation. Hopefully when it starts getting some direct sunlight in a couple of weeks, it'll be better.

Like I said in the original post, I water the plant when it's slightly dry. This might be considered a bit drier than "Make sure the soil stays moist", which is your recommendation. Since I started getting into indoor plants, I've often questioned how moist moist soil actually is, and how dry dry soil actually is. And are we usually talking about the absolute top of the soil, about 1 cm down into the soil, or are we talking about the area where the roots are? So far, I've tried googling for an answer, without really finding a good one, and then kind of just YOLO'ed it, if that's a word I'm allowed to use in here. Maybe you have some information that might help me here?

Anyway, thanks again for the help.
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Jan 4, 2019 8:59 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Hi Roarstor, Welcome!

@WillC is a professional with indoor plants so his advice is spot on!

If I'm calculating correctly (converting 2.5 - 3 meters to feet) your Balfour Aralia (Polyscias scutellaria 'Fabian') is 8 to 10 feet from any window which is too far away and not receiving sufficient light.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Jan 5, 2019 11:05 AM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
Thank you, Lin!

I agree with Lin that it is far from an ideal location relative to the window. I understand that you have no choice about improving the light. That does not mean your Aralia will die, but it does mean that older, lower leaves will continue to gradually die because they are adapted to more light. However, new leaves will continue to merge and they will be better adapted to the reduced light. Over time, the stems will become more bare, leggy and taller with healthy new growth mostly at the tip ends of the stems. It should be okay, but it will look different than it does now. It will respond well to pruning.

I understand your frustration with watering instructions commonly available. Whenever I provide water interactions I want to first know how it is potted before I advise how deep into the soil it should dry before watering. There is no single answer for any one plant species. Very general watering instructions (water once per week or water when dry) are not at all helpful.

Your Aralia is potted in plastic so that tells me that it was not repotted by you and that the plastic will not dry out as quickly as terra cotta, as I thought it was originally. Your Aralia should be watered as soon as the surface of the soil feels just barely damp or slightly dry. That is as specific as I can be. My educated guess is that a thorough watering would suffice for about a week.

Caveat: These watering instructions are specific to your plant in its situation and cannot be applied to any other plants that you have.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Avatar for Roarstor
Jan 5, 2019 1:46 PM CST
Thread OP
Norge
I'll be honest, I've never pruned any of my plants before. I started buying plants about 6 months ago when I moved into a new house, and bought over 20 plants over a few months. After two plants died fairly quickly, I spent a lot of time researching the whole light and watering situation. Except for a few cuttings to get more plants, I've been too afraid to prune any of the plants though, as I fear damaging the plants.

So when it comes to pruning, would the plant benefit from having small leaves like these, at the bottom of the stem, cut off?

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The plant also has a few layers of leaves with different sizes, generally having the outermost layer consisting of the largest leaves. Should any of these be pruned as well? Are any specific tools or methods required when pruning, or should I just cut it off with a sharp and sterile knife?

Thumb of 2019-01-05/Roarstor/22f5a7

Cheers!
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Jan 6, 2019 10:21 AM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
Your reaction to pruning is common. Folks tend to think of pruning as being like surgery or amputation. A better analogy is that pruning is like getting a haircut. Pruning will affect the overall shape and size of the plant, but it will not affect the health of the plant in any way. Thus, it is not something to fear. The worst that can happen is that you prune off too much, but it will grow back.

Yours is not in need of pruning at this point, but it will be in the future, maybe in a year or so. By then, more of the older leaves will have dropped off and the individual stems will have grown taller and longer while adding new leaves at the ends of each stem. After a while, it will have what is commonly called a "leggy" appearance with many long stems that are bare on their lower portions. It is those stems that are candidates for pruning as a way to eliminate the bare stems and to promote healthy new growth lower down on the stems.

It is hard to be specific because your Aralia does not yet need pruning. Do keep it in mind and come back in a year or so for more advice specific to your plant. In the interim focus on providing good light and proper watering. And avoid repotting and over-fertilizing it .
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Avatar for Roarstor
Jan 13, 2019 4:14 AM CST
Thread OP
Norge
Thanks again!

For now I'll just wait and see how it goes. Hopefully it'll stabilize for a bit when we get more daylight during winter and spring. I guess this is one of the pains of living north. During winter, in my particular place, we have maybe 4-5 hours of daylight, while we have 20-22 hours of daylight during summer.
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Jan 13, 2019 10:15 AM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
Only 4-5 hours of daylight! That is far north. Where are you located? Below the Arctic Circle, I hope!
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Avatar for Roarstor
Feb 2, 2019 12:38 PM CST
Thread OP
Norge
I live in Norway, but yeah, I'm luckily below the arctic circle! We're cursed with extremely dark winters and extremely bright summers.
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Feb 3, 2019 12:16 PM CST
JC NJ/So FL (Zone 7b)
Amaryllis Hydroponics Houseplants Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography
Bromeliad Aroids Tropicals Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I grow several different Aralias and I can tell you that it is very important to keep the plant warm, especially in winter. 65F(18C) is the cut off: below that it will stop absorbing water and then you should water it less, allowing top 2-3" to dryout, otherwise the root-rot is certain. by the way most of the roots of Aralias are at the bottom of the pot, even on mature old plants. you can poke around with a spoon to see if top soil has any roots or not.
in winter in cold climates the area near windows gets much colder then the rest of the room. So you get a dilemma: this plant needs partial sun at all times, but getting partial sun at a cold window is not a plus. It's better to keep near the lamp or overhead lighting of some sort but away from windows in a warmer part of the room.
It also needs high humidity. if it's less then 30% RH the plant will suffer and drop the leaves.

Unfortunately it is not an easy plant to grow if you do not provide the conditions it likes. I fully tent my Aralias in large plastic bags for 3 months of winter positioning them within 2 feet(60cm) from western window which provides sev hours of warm light. keeping it in plastic gives it higher humidity and keeps it warmer.

but even with such tender care my Aralias drop some leaves in winter.

the optimum conditions for growth are : humidity above 75%, temp in the 80s (30C) and plenty of water. at high temps they absorb much more water and start growing leaves like crazy. To get that I put them outside in aug, when night temps do not fall below 75F(24C).
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Feb 5, 2019 10:53 AM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
Your Aralia is not showing any evidence of chilling damage. If your home and windows are reasonably well insulated, then outside cold should not be an issue. There is no substitute for good light.

I know from personal experience caring for dozens of Aralias that they do just fine even in very low humidity as long as the roots are properly hydrated.

I don't recommend poking around in the roots as that can cause serious damage if you don't know what you are doing.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Image
Feb 5, 2019 2:27 PM CST
JC NJ/So FL (Zone 7b)
Amaryllis Hydroponics Houseplants Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography
Bromeliad Aroids Tropicals Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I've been around NYC offices for half a lifetime and saw Aralia only once :). they are super slow and hence VERY expensive to get. it's mostly Drac's and sansi - just sitting there with barely any growth. They don't really aim to grow them, just a décor - the least it changes (grows) the better: no need to do anything.
you can't compare office conditions with home: offices are usually at a very steady 68F with fluorescent lighting. don't know for sure about humidity, but some people have 10%, especially up north in z5 and they often lower the night temps to like 55F. that's why I mentioned the chill. and my windows are super duper modern and still when it's 10F outside I get a lot of heat loss off them, but I do have 25' of glass top to bottom :).

the temp is at least 5F lower next to glass vs middle of the room. and that's a now mild z7 for NYC. he has 5hours of light in winter? that's WAY up north and MUCH colder!

lot's of people save on heating bills. Keeping Aralia moist below 65F would lead to root rot in no time. and even if it's kept dryer it won't like it in any case, will drop leaves for sure.
Last edited by skylark Feb 5, 2019 4:28 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 6, 2019 2:07 PM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
NYC Aralias


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Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Image
Feb 7, 2019 11:11 AM CST
JC NJ/So FL (Zone 7b)
Amaryllis Hydroponics Houseplants Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography
Bromeliad Aroids Tropicals Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
those look old Smiling and in very good condition. Lucky people who have them!
I grew a giant Asparagus Fern hanging from the ceiling in the office and it did spectacularly well. It grew very healthy for several years and never dropped any needles. My guess is that humidity is higher in the office then in residential homes and the temps are warmer and steadier, don't drop at night as much.
soon as I brought it home, it started dropping needles ...even though it was next to east window. I think fluorescent lighting is quite strong in the office: you can read easily.
but at most homes you can't, unless you're next to the windows.
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Feb 7, 2019 2:32 PM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
I care for plants in many homes and many offices. Of course, they are never exactly the same. However, there is no significant difference in humidity and temperature variation between homes and offices in NYC. It is rare that either is ever an issue in either type of environment.

Overhead fluorescent lighting is common in office, but rare in homes. That allows for the placement of low light plants in office locations that have no natural light. However, many non-low light plants such as Polyscias must be located close to windows as fluorescent lighting is not adequate for them.

Properly locating plants so they get proper light is key to their long-term health.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care
Image
Feb 8, 2019 10:51 AM CST
JC NJ/So FL (Zone 7b)
Amaryllis Hydroponics Houseplants Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography
Bromeliad Aroids Tropicals Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I have west facing windows, used to have south facing windows: the whole width of the room. and in winter when it was 32F outside, the room would heat up to 80F without heat being turned on. so, those aralias (in your pics) by the windows are not only getting partial sun (which they need) but also warmth. especially in offices with fl to ceiling glass.
they absorb much more water in those conditions and do not drop the leaves as much, provided night temps do not fall below 65F (which they might, if plants are too close to glass).
both warmth and light are critical in my experience, with humidity running close :).
I have observed phenomenal growth on my Aralia 'Ming' and 'Parsley' when I put them outside in august in north East partial sun: with humidity 60-70% and temps day 85f- night 75F.
I also get very good growth in mar-apr when I get equinox sun until sunset: it gets very warm then indoors, 82F being normal: I have to turn on a/c then.
Last edited by skylark Feb 8, 2019 10:53 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for Roarstor
Feb 11, 2019 10:43 AM CST
Thread OP
Norge
So I just came home to my (outdoor) cat having dug up a lot of dirt from the pot, and then proceeded to pee on the floor. She's done something similar once before, but I was able to stop her. Turned out she had a urinary infection. Not sure if it's her age, or if there's something wrong this time as well, because these are the only two times it have happened in her ten years.

Anyway, I was wondering if I should do anything with the plant, in case she did any damage to it.




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Feb 11, 2019 8:04 PM CST
JC NJ/So FL (Zone 7b)
Amaryllis Hydroponics Houseplants Region: Florida Container Gardener Garden Photography
Bromeliad Aroids Tropicals Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
most Aralia roots are at the bottom, so digging up the top soil shouldn't disturb them.
Aralias do not like roots to be disturbed in general, they start dropping leaves..the roots in the last pic look old and dry to me.
you can perhaps tie a string under the pot rim and cris-crossing over the top sev times to prevent her from trying to get into the pot.
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Feb 12, 2019 10:35 AM CST
Name: Will Creed
NYC
Prof. plant consultant & educator
Replace the soil so it is back to the way it was before. The exposed roots are not a concern.

If you suspect she may have peed in the soil, then I suggest that you flush lots of plain water through the soil to wash away any urine that may be there.
Will Creed
Horticultural Help, NYC
www.HorticulturalHelp.com
Contact me directly at [email protected]
I now have a book available on indoor plant care

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