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Apr 12, 2020 4:34 AM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Hi All
I was Not going to bother with Tomato's this year because I wanted to buy Tomato seedlings so because of the Virus I couldn't go to garden centre's to buy them etc But I have now thought about it and realised other people's comments here made sense about seeds are better than nothing. below is a post I posted in the 2020 Tomato thread.....

Tafy said:Hi All
This is my 1st post since last year
and I must say I'm Very Very Very Pissed off with this Poxy Virus which is killing people and has brought the whole World to it's knees.
Yeah I know this is the Tomato thread so I'll make my point I bought a lovely Glasshouse last year used it for over-wintering my Fuchsia & Hydrangea cuttings it did the job perfectly, All cuttings have caught and have now been re-potted ready to go out onto my Patio so my Glasshouse would then be empty and ready for Tomato plants or so I thought.....I was hoping to purchase 6 Tomato plants and 2 of the Tomorite Growbags so glasshouse would be ready for summer all sorted
Hmm Well do you know what at this particular moment in time it's easier to buy a human kidney !
I have searched high and low on every plant nursery and garden website in the UK some garden websites are even making people queue for up to 30 mins before they can enter the website then to top it all off they're completely outa stock of Tomato plants or growbags!
No I can't be bothered with seeds I think it's a bit late now anyway but if I'd known yeah you bet I would have
So as you can imagine I'm Very Disappointed and Pissed right off I gotta wait now until next year.
Cheers
Tafy Sad


So Anyway I have now sown a tray of Alicante Tomato's (75)
Sweet Mixed peppers (20)
Chilli's (50)

Hopefully I will get some nice seedlings this is my 1st attempt at growing these fruits
I will upload pics and keep you all updated on my progress....fingers crossed.
cheers
Tafy Crossing Fingers!

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Apr 12, 2020 5:58 AM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Looking good, Tafy! We're in a time we when have to adapt and figure out new ways to get to old goals. Nice hot house! Thumbs up
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Apr 25, 2020 2:29 PM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Hi All
I haven't had any success what-so-ever with the chillis or peppers seeds Not one of either has germinated.
Obviously it's because I'm not using the correct seeding soil/compost these lock-down restrictions has caused all sorts of problems for me because I cannot go to any garden centre etc. Sad
Although on a brighter note I was able to pick up 12 good strong healthy looking Alicante tomato plants from a local food superstore which also sells a few plants I couldn't believe my eyes when I seen them on the shelf so I brought them home and planted them up in growbags in my glasshouse.
here are some pics I'll post more pics hopefully as they progress and reward me with tomatoes.


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cheers
Tafy
Smiling
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Apr 25, 2020 2:40 PM CST
Name: Doug
Texas (Zone 8b)
Peppers are very slow to germinate when the soil is cool. I'd try to get the soil temp up to 25-30C (80F) or so. Can take several weeks if at room temperature or below.
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Apr 25, 2020 6:49 PM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
From my short-term experience, yes, peppers can take a while to germinate. Definitely give them a little more time. If tomato seeds germinated then the pepper seeds should, too,...just a bit later.
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Apr 26, 2020 10:14 AM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Hi Doug & Ed Thanks both for your replies and encouragement means a lot Thumbs up
Here are some pics I have just taken for you to see.
Temp is constantly between 60°F overnight and during the day it's 80°F - 90°F
I have to open glasshouse windows regular during the day because temp shoots up to 100°F+
also I'm constantly spraying trays with water twice a day trying to coax them to germinate
I am south facing so when there's no cloud it really is a sun trap at the front of my home
It's now 3 weeks since I sowed the 3 trays of seeds.

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cheers
Tafy
Smiling
Last edited by Tafy Apr 26, 2020 10:20 AM Icon for preview
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Apr 26, 2020 2:40 PM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Hmmm, these temperatures are inside the greenhouse, right? I just looked at a weather report for Wales and it looks like ambient temperatures are upper 50's for highs and 40's for lows. That 100F+ I would think was too hot. Did it hit that high very often? Three weeks out for the pepper seeds seems to be stretching it a bit, give'em another week if nothing happens I'd re-seed.

In the trays where the tomatoes have sprouted, are the empty cells where tomatoes did not germinate? Tomatoes germinate faster/easier than pepper seed. If you had that entire tray seeded with tomato seeds then something about the germination environment may have been bad. Shrug!

40F is not too terribly low of a temperature and with the mass of soil in there some heat from the day should be retained. Unless I was absolutely sure I could get to the hot house and open the vents on it I think that I would feel better leaving the vent open a small amount all the time...and open it wide during the day.

The way that I germinate seeds is to have my soil container covered in plastic. I actually use a plastic pan with styrofoam cups in it to start my seeds in. I cover this with a loose sheet of thin plastic...enough to hold most of the moisture in but still allow a small amount of air to enter (very small amount of air). I add some water maybe every two or three days. The trays basically stay at room temperature.
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Apr 26, 2020 3:16 PM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
HI Ed
Yes those temperatures are inside the greenhouse I check temps throught the day and as soon as the temp starts to climb around midday I do same as you by opening all sliding doors front and top
so air can circulate I followed instructions on seed packets with temps of 60-80F
Also Yes the empty cells are where seeds didn't germinate I sowed 75 seeds in that tomato tray which was about 5 seeds to each cell, the peppers tray has 20 seeds one in each cell and the chilli tray has about 50 seeds.
I got a feeling the the compost I used has buggered things up because it's not good quality seed compost it's only about 2 quid a bag which I use for mixing with soil for potting my Roses and Fuchsia's compared to other stuff I seen for seeds which was nearly five quid a bag.
Anyway Ed Thanks for your continued help and advise I really appreciate it because it's my first attempt at sowing seeds I most certainly won't give up I'll try different compost once this bloody virus lockdown stops so I can go to a garden centre, in the meantime I'll keep you updated ok.
cheers
Tafy
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Apr 26, 2020 3:59 PM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Yeah, something just isn't right about the germination. That 100F temperature bothers me but may not mean anything. Hang in there. Thumbs up

Ed
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Apr 29, 2020 7:31 AM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Chilli's are making an appearance Hurray Hurray!
I can just see 3 little one's hopefully more to follow.

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cheers
Tafy
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Apr 29, 2020 7:38 AM CST
Name: Lynda Horn
Arkansas (Zone 7b)
Eat more tomatoes!
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Fantastic!
Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Mother Teresa
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Apr 29, 2020 9:07 AM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up
Those are the trail blazers....more to come!!!!
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Apr 29, 2020 9:08 AM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Out of curiosity, have any more of the tomatoes sprouted?
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Apr 29, 2020 12:46 PM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Intheswamp said:Out of curiosity, have any more of the tomatoes sprouted?

Hi Ed
Yes I can see a few more comming up look at 4th & 5th plug down directly below tomato's label you can see them, I have counted about 50 up until now.

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cheers
Tafy
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Apr 29, 2020 3:07 PM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Thumbs up
Big question... how many of these pepper and tomato seedlings will you be growing to maturity?
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Apr 29, 2020 4:48 PM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Now that Ed is a Very good question indeed Thinking
because as you can see from my earlier post the bottom of my glasshouse is already full of Alicante Toms which I purchased so, Um yeah I haven't thought about that because obviously the Fuchsias will have to be moved out and the glasshouse dividing shelves will have to be removed for me the use bamboo cane's allowing the Toms to grow to the height of the glasshouse which is about 5ft so erm I don't know Ed ?
any suggestions ?
cheers
Tafy
Last edited by Tafy Apr 29, 2020 4:50 PM Icon for preview
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Apr 29, 2020 5:14 PM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Uh, you know these get 6+ feet tall don't you? They are not going to be happy inside your greenhouse...one of them could possibly fill it up. You could plant one or maybe two in a 5-gallon bucket or planter. Or, if you have ground area plant them in the ground...these are not made to remain in the greenhouse. I think of your greenhouse as a germination, seedling growing, new plant starting container...not to finish growing out a crop of tomatoes in.

Hmm, I just looked at a report on your climate....mid-60F degrees in the middle of summer??? That is in the low range of the growing temperature for tomatoes. Thinking You definitely want to have them outside in a large container or transplanted into the ground by the first of June to have time for tomatoes to make. You could grow a couple or maybe three pepper plants in your greenhouse...they like hotter weather/temps. I'm sorry, but until just now I did not realize the summer temperatures that you have.

Do you have a patch of ground to plant in or will everything be grown on the patio in pots or buckets?

Are you close to the Cardiff area? That appears to be the warmest area. Confused
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Apr 30, 2020 4:57 AM CST
Thread OP
Wales UK
Region: Wales
Intheswamp said:these are not made to remain in the greenhouse. I think of your greenhouse as a germination, seedling growing, new plant starting container...not to finish growing out a crop of tomatoes in.

You definitely want to have them outside in a large container or transplanted into the ground by the first of June to have time for tomatoes to make.

Do you have a patch of ground to plant in or will everything be grown on the patio in pots or buckets?

Are you close to the Cardiff area? That appears to be the warmest area. Confused


Oh Thinking
Wow so are your saying the Toms may not yeild any fruits because my glasshouse is to small ?

Oh dear Sad

I really thought as long as I fed them and kept them at a reasonable height they'd be ok ? Thinking

Oh well one thing for sure is that my Niwaki pro snips will have plenty of use especially when these Toms starts trying to outgrow the glasshouse Rolling on the floor laughing
I'm about 30 miles from Cardiff and the temperatures here are appalling we are very lucky to have maybe a few weeks of sun during the summer so to grow Toms in the ground really is a hit or miss scenario compared to growing in a greenhouse etc.
I think I'll divide All the new little seedlings out into small pots give them a further week or 2 in the glasshouse for them to develop themselves a little more then I'll probably give some of them away to my neighbours I'll just keep one or 2 as you said in pots on my patio because I have no ground at all to plant them into the ground.
To be honest Ed as you can see I have not thought this through as where all these little plants are going to go......I think I was so annoyed because I couldn't go to the Garden Centre (virus lockdown) to purchase just 6-8 Tomato plants I thought bugger it I'll just plant some seeds myself but now I'm gonna be overwhelmed with plants D'Oh!
Anyway no worries this is all new to me and I'm learning as I go along it's keeping my mind occupied during these dark uncertain worrying times but I will certainly learn from my mistakes ready for next year I'll keep you updated hopefully with some pics of big juicy red Tomatoes.
cheers
Tafy Sticking tongue out
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Apr 30, 2020 6:12 AM CST
Name: Lynda Horn
Arkansas (Zone 7b)
Eat more tomatoes!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tomato Heads Salvias Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Peppers
Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Morning Glories Master Gardener: Arkansas Lilies Hummingbirder
I'm not familiar with this variety but I do know there are varieties that do wonderfully well in greenhouses. There are places in the USA, up near the Canadian border, where the season is so short that I'm sure there are growers who use greenhouses. Don't lose hope, choose the strongest plants to keep and go forth with your plan to raise them in your greenhouse anyway. For next year, you could do some research to find other varieties you could grow. Now that you know you can grow them from seed that opens up a lot of choices to you. I'm sure that here at least half of the tomatoes sold in the winter are grown in greenhouses. I'm pretty sure I saw a lot of greenhouse tomato seeeds in the Johnnys seed catalog, and quite a few of them were developed in your country.
Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Mother Teresa
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Apr 30, 2020 7:18 AM CST
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Giving lots of the seedlings away is a good thing. There are always "thinnings" from planting different types of seeds. We always plant more seeds than desired plants to insure we get enough plants. Most of the time the smaller, less vigorous thinnings are snipped off at ground level to insure the stronger ones are not crowded and that they get all the nutrition available in the soil. Once the seedlings get their first set of true leaves (tomato-looking leaves) it's best to gently transplant them from the tray into a large cup or pot (I use 16-20 ounce styrofoam cups). Since I plant my seeds directly into these cups I do not have to move the small seedlings to their individual cups but rather snip or dig up the seedlings that I do not want. Sometimes, if I decide I want more plants than I initially thought, I will transplant one of the thinned seedlings to another cup. But, when growing in a tray with many seedlings you need to transplant the desired seedlings to their own container. You might even want to put two seedlings in each container for "insurance" in case one dies....but be prepared soon to thin one of them out later.

Note: Always handle young seedlings by a leaf, not the stem. They can recover from a damaged leaf but if that fragile stem is damaged it pretty well dooms the seedling.

Don't worry about saving all of those seedlings...it'll drive you crazy trying to take care of all of them. Thin them down to maybe a couple of dozen plants. Watch those plants for two or three weeks and see which ones are growing the best....healthiest-looking, rich-green colors, stocky stems, etc.,. Not necessarily the tallest ones. Thin out by giving away or tossing the lesser plants until you're down to a dozen or so and pot these up to larger containers. These should be fairly big by then. You might try two of them in your greenhouse and the rest in containers (grow-bags?) outside...do an experiment to see which grows the best. You might even go a little crazy and build you a slightly larger "temporary" greenhouse out of small lumber and plastic sheeting to house three or four plants inside. Gardening is supposed to be fun...experimenting and trying new things are part of that! Thumbs up

You may very well get some tomatoes from one or two plants inside that greenhouse, but it will be very cramped. I would imagine that you will. A problem with tomatoes is disease, though I don't know if you have as bad a situation with tomato diseases where you live as I do here where I live. Tomato plants need good ventilation to help keep those diseases to a minimum...that's really not going to happen in the greenhouse unless. But, you can open the doors up a bit for some fresh air and who knows, you may end up making a good crop! Thumbs up Just be aware of the limitations involved.

There is many a garden grown in buckets and pots. As long as the plants are planted in large containers in good soil, fed, and watered well then they produce nicely. You're biggest challenge is something you can't control...your climate. Any success that you have take as a victory, because it *will be one*!!!! Thumbs up

Something else to consider is smaller tomatoes. We all like big tomatoes but there is some really great tasting cherry tomatoes that grow on petite plants and would fit in your greenhouse nicely. I like ham and cheese sandwiches with mayo and spicy mustard with cherry tomatoes sliced in half and microwaved. Quiet tasty!!!! Drooling BUT...your choice isn't necessarily a bad one. It appears to be a popular cultivar for your area. It is an early producing tomato, good disease resistance and being a height of 5-6 feet it might just be pruned into being happy in your greenhouse. According to what I'm reading those larger transplants in the growing bags should be going outside soon for "hardening off"...or maybe just opening the doors a bit. In a couple of more weeks it will be time for the large plants to be permanently outside (according to planting times I've seen for your area...use your own judgement on this. Smiling ).

The reason I asked about Cardiff is that it appears to have the warmest temperatures of the area. With the low temperatures that you have I would think that disease will be at a minimum...unlike here in south Alabama where we can have weeks of 90F weather with days poking into the 100F's. My first year getting serious with gardening I had a 50-foot row (around 15 plants) of the prettiest tomato plants you'd want to see. They were rich green and grew out of the top of 5-foot tall tomato cages and down the sides....they were loaded with blooms and tomatoes. I did not get to eat a single tomato because E-V-E-R-Y S-I-N-G-L-E O-N-E R-O-T-T-E-D !!!!!!!!!!!!! No kiddin'! Every one of them rotted!!!! Blinking They were all open-pollinated plants and "something" (disease) went through them. I switched to mostly hybrids the next year and though I had problems I still made a fantastic crop of tomatoes compared to the rotten year previously. We're all learning and will be until we lay our shovels and snips down. We'll win some and lose some, but we'll keep on keeping on. Chalk the losses up to education/learning and victories up as blessings! And build on those blessings! Thumbs up

Hang in there with it. I think you're going to make some tomatoes...seems like you've got the "stick-to-it" to make it happen!!! Hurray!

Best wishes! I tip my hat to you.
Ed

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