i brought these plumeria back to Long Island New York from southeast asia, they're cuttings from at least 2 different trees here, the ones with the healthy looking plump stems that are showing the best signs of growth and rooting are white with light yellow center flowers, or generic plumeria flowers IMO, the one which have the long, thin woody and shriveled looking stems are from a tree with beautiful orange and pink flowers. the parent tree seemed healthy and in bloom, but the cuttings i took were all from non blooming stems.

the long woody thin cuttings showed no signs of life or growth until recently, where just the tinies nubs have started to appear, and now the beginning of claw, but not the shiny plump cluster of claws like on the one which now has 2 leaves growing, the most plump cutting of all.

the tips on at least 3 of the 5 cuttings that were slow to show signs of growth, have also been growing in quite dark, and now on at least one or 2, appear shriveled and black, i'm guess it may not grow and would love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.

to pot them, i put them in plastic water bottles with some "bad" sandy soil from across the street, side of the road, mixed with the rest of the bag of perlite i had, and some rather large bits of charcoal.

it was around july 15th that i put them in there, with a good amount of OLD rooting hormone that's been in the shed year round for a few years, not sure if that stuff loses its potency or not. i then filled up the bottles with water after making drainage hole around the bottoms, and put them all together in a larger plastic planter and left in the shed for a day or 2, thinking they would get a lot of heat in there, and humidity, but checking it after the 2nd day, during the middle of the day i was surprised to discover that it was actually cooler in the rubbermaid plastic shed than it was outside, so, i brought it to the front of the house, the walkway entrance where there's no direct sunlight where they stayed for a about a month, where the one with the most growth started showing its little horns.

i then moved them a few meters away to a spot that gets a little bit of morning sun for a few days, but then we had a few days of cold, so i brought them inside the house, to the back south facing bay window, thinking they would get a lot of sun and not suffer from the cold (60f 13c), but maybe too much sun.

i noticed they actually didn't get much direct sunlight there, and then i moved them to the back, on the west side of the house, where they only get direct sun in the afternoon, and they're on granite surface, so it warms up and holds some warmth into the night, which stays warm here on the east coast as the climate is relatively humid, unlike in the west coast/southwest.

once moved to where they are now, the rest of the cuttings started to show signs of growth, a good thing i though, but now the black shriveled up claws worry me, that the ones i really wanted to grow aren't looking so hot.

WATERING

after flooding them at planting time, i didn't water them for at least a month, and then when the first cutting started growing the bunny ears, i gave them all a bit of water, maybe half a cup each. the soil has always felt damp but not wet after feeling with my fingertip just under the surface, to my surprise, and i wonder if it's actually damp or does it just feel that way because it's cooler.

just yesterday, as i was in the back, i splashed them all with a bit of water on the stems only, and added no water directly to the soil, and today, the drier woody stem cuttings are looking more dry and black and shriveled, one tip especially. please see the photos and the video and let us know what you think.

I don't see pics or video.

Ditto... only a big block of blank space after the watering comments.

yea sorry about that, i have tried several times to post the photos and video, but it's not working. i'm not computer illiterate either. i'm not able to post links yet either because i'm too new here. :-/

Wow, a lot of info. First I'm optimistic because the tips are green. Planting them in "bad" sandy soil was not a good idea. When rooting cuttings the soil is critical to establishing new roots and goes a long way in weather they make it or not. Never heard of putting charcoal in there but might be a regional thing. I don't think old root hormone will hurt. Your watering habit seems normal. My opinion is the soil you planted them in is the issue. After 5 weeks you should be seeing signs of growth if cuttings were healthy. Not sure where to go from here. Personally I would replant them as is with a mixture of cactus soil and planting mix and hope for best.
I think they can be saved. Try to keep them in outside sun as much as you can.
Good luck. They look like good plants. This is advise from the west coast. Not sure what growers do in your neck of the woods😎

thanks gimmie..., charcoal just happened to be there where i collected the crappy soil, i thought crappy sandy soil would make the plant shoot out long roots, and i figured the charcoal would just be similar to the perlite and help it be light and loose and drain well.

you don't think it may damage the young fragile roots re-potting/replanting at this time?

anyway, the photos are of most of the cuttings, but the ones i'm concerned about in particular are the tips where the young claw like leaves seem to have turned black and dried up, it seems those would-be leaves are now hopeless. i googled plenty and thought surely info on this phenomena would be out there, but keywords plumeria claws or tips black shriveled etc just returned results about rot. i guess that tip may try to grow them again, but there may not be enough time left in the season here. soon nights may be too cold.

i know generally speaking that with plant care, overzealous gardeners tend to overwater their plants, and with plumeria, even more so, so i've been careful not to water them, just sprinkled them with water yesterday, and today they look worse, maybe just coincidental, but considering how long ago their first planting was, and my second watering, do you think those woody ones at least may need some more water, or is that thin woody and dry looking stem nothing to be worried about?

cheers,
ssierra

Restrain yourself from watering. The cutting has not yet formed good roots. I usually wait for at least one good leaf to be fully open before I resume active watering. Leaf claws like the one you see does not count yet.

Just find a warm, bright light area, or maybe an area that gets more morning sun, and leave it there, do not keep moving it around. Usually, once the plant has formed good leaves, and watering is resumed, that is the time i can move it to more direct sun, since it can now take in more moisture for its growing needs. Till then, got to coax the cutting to form roots first, otherwise it will just be a slow rotting damage at the base that spreads throughout the cutting.

Ideally, next time, use cacti mix and add lots of pumice or perlite to it, to make it gritty and well draining. Do not just get soil/sand from the street, since you cannot guarantee it being free of toxins.

I would move now on replanting, I think the new roots could handle it. there might be enough time to start over. The black leaves are gone but might not be too late for it to start new leaves. The tips are healthy green so I think they would welcome some soft soil. Same water schedule, water them once and then no more. Again, I'm not in your region so you know more then me about how much time is left in your growing season. If there's 3 weeks or so I would go for it.😎

thanks for the advice y'all.

tarev, so before it was in a spot that got a little teeny bit of morning sun, maybe up to an hour, not more than that, then shade all day. then in the back, it's on the west side, so gets quite a bit of direct sunlight until about sunset, and warm ground because it's granite steps.

do you guys recommend moving all of the cuttings to a morning sun spot (that is also dry) or particular ones? is the one with the 2 leaves forming ok to put elsewhere?

ok i do have potting soil, but i've lost plumeria cuttings in the past to a mix of 50/50 potting soil/perlite, one time watering, and covered loosely with plastic bag with holes, for humidity to rot. so i figured this stuff across the street being sandy, would be better.

i'm afraid to damage the delicate roots now moving them, any tips or suggestions how to go about doing it?

maybe cutting out the bottom of the plastic bottle and the side and opening it on some new soil and filling in around? then wet down a bit again and leave it for at least a month without watering?

the ones that seem to be doing at least ok, should i change their soil too or just leave them as they are until they're more well established?

cheers,
ssierra

My only suggestion, just keep them in that spot if it gets sun and warmth. Just leave them be. Do not keep moving them around....and your best approach....be patient....patience will be your friend.
Good luck!

thanks Tarev. i'm curious though, you say don't move them around, why is that?

I have moved them around quite a bit, but now I've settled for leaving them out in the backyard on the concrete and under a glass table. They will not get rained on there, and i thought maybe being under a glass table it would maybe get insanely hot, but it actually makes shade, it's not clear glass, but like shower glass. maybe the concrete nearby will absorb some heat and give off humidity too when it gets wet, as it rains often here on Long Island (NY).

i want to post a few update photos, and ask why do the claws seem to start out ok then turn black and shrivel up, as you can see, even on some of the other stems that do have shiny healthy looking claws, and some dry shriveled up black ones too, but the orange plumeria with the long dry stem is still struggling with making any decent claws or leaves.

i watered the bunch to the top at planting time on July 15-ish and then again just little bit each around the 20th or so of august. should i still refrain from giving any water?

thanks Tarev. i'm curious though, you say don't move them around, why is that?

I have moved them around quite a bit, but now I've settled for leaving them out in the backyard on the concrete and under a glass table. They will not get rained on there, and i thought maybe being under a glass table it would maybe get insanely hot, but it actually makes shade, it's not clear glass, but like shower glass. maybe the concrete nearby will absorb some heat and give off humidity too when it gets wet, as it rains often here on Long Island (NY).

i want to post a few update photos, and ask why do the claws seem to start out ok then turn black and shrivel up, as you can see, even on some of the other stems that do have shiny healthy looking claws, and some dry shriveled up black ones too, but the orange plumeria with the long dry stem is still struggling with making any decent claws or leaves.

i watered the bunch to the top at planting time on July 15-ish and then again just little bit each around the 20th or so of august. should i still refrain from giving any water?

When you keep moving it around, it changes its ambience, like direction of light, temperature etc. So it makes it harder for your cutting to get used to the environment.

Claws that blacken may indicate somehow it felt some cool temps. See this link to give you more information about black tip fungus. http://plumeria101.com/problem...

I will have to repeat that you have to be patient while waiting and leaving it alone. If you keep watering it, and it has no roots yet, you are just risking rotting at the base that can easily spread to the rest of the cutting.

I'm not an expert listen to everyone else but wanted to say hello from Merrick! I've had success growing plumies here, I bring them outside in April/May and have gotten flowers by September. Better late than never!

tarev said:When you keep moving it around, it changes its ambience, like direction of light, temperature etc. So it makes it harder for your cutting to get used to the environment.

ok, the explanation helps a lot, i will keep them in their current spot as i'm satisfied with the location, not too much sun not too much shade, and won't get wet.

tarev said:Claws that blacken may indicate somehow it felt some cool temps. See this link to give you more information about black tip fungus. http://plumeria101.com/problem...

when i do a google search, and i've done plenty, i've not seen anything that looks quite like the dried up shriveled up black claws as i see on that one cutting in particular, some others have some claws that have dried up, but there are good ones that remained. the images i have seen for the black tip fungus, don't look like what i'm observing on mine, i could be wrong, but from the photos i've seen the black tip fungus seems to rot the fat stem itself, like a sort of rot, while the tip on my cutting with the dried out claws is green underneath them dried claws, although it does look as if it's been eaten away a bit, as if by a caterpillar or something like that, but i don't think that's the case, which is why i'm looking for additional info here from more experienced plumeria owners/growers, to know what it is that's going on.

tarev said:I will have to repeat that you have to be patient while waiting and leaving it alone. If you keep watering it, and it has no roots yet, you are just risking rotting at the base that can easily spread to the rest of the cutting.

hehehe, yea it's hard, i look at them everyday, sit in front of them for a while, take photos, and move them around, worrying that maybe there's too much shade here, or maybe there's too much sun here, but i think under the table now is a good spot, so they'll remain there.

i've noticed that the 2 cuttings that are showing the most leaf growth may have some visible roots now, one of them for sure, and the other, the one which sprouted first and has a nearly fully opened up leaf now, i think i see a little teeny bit of root growth where it comes to the edge of the plastic bottle. see the photos.




this may be going against ur advice tarev, but i've put the one with the most fully formed leaf out in the direct sunlight a few minutes ago, as i've read that once there are some fully formed leaves, they can then be put in full sun. not sure if this qualifies, but since it's the one that seems to be doing the best, and it's now september in new york, i feel like there's precious little time where they can be out in nice enough weather, and i want to give it a boost as much as i can.

i have refrained from watering them, but, i'm concerned about the cuttings where the stem is thin and wrinkled and woody(orange/pink flowers) rather than the more succulent fat stem of the white flower ones. until now their watering has been the flooding at planting time(after the dip in years old rooting hormone), and half a cup of water in each a couple of weeks ago. i don't want to or intend to water them once they go dormant, so, i'd like to plump them up, if possible, or is it normal for some varieties to just be thin, woody and wrinkled like that?

If it is at least one fully open leaf, sure, you can resume active watering and position it to more sun. It is a good indication it is finally awake. I have mentioned that on my initial post on this thread. It is only when it is still in leaf claw stage that I continue to wait patiently, as long as it takes and must restrain yourself from watering it.

I will let others comment on that quite woody looking cutting you have. The cuttings I have tried are not that woody.

yea, it's woody and thin. less than half the diameter of the fatter, white flower ones.

the one with the open leaf, i put it where it gets some direct sun, just a meter away. now that i know that it's ok to water it, should i give it a little bit every week, like half a cup, or just give it another big soak and leave it for a longer period of time? or, should i just let it get rained on? it rains frequently in long island new york, i think probably typical of the east coast in general. i did just hit it with some water from the watering can, got the stem wet, and i could see that the soil in the container is draining well. it left a big wet circle on the concrete when i moved it, and then again when i moved it to another dry spot, so i'd say the water is mostly just running through there.


should i top it with a small amount of my compost which is fine and loose? like 1cm?

i'm seeing roots on 2 of them now, the 2 that are forming leaves, although oddly, the one which doesn't yet have an opened leaf has much more visible roots, and even has a tip nearly coming out of the bottom of the container's drain hole, you can see it in the photo below.


should i just continue to leave them in the rooting containers until the next spring, or transfer to a small pot?

sorry for so many questions, but that's what we're here for. thank you all for your help.

Rain is really much better...wish I have rain here on my side.

I am inclined to just leave it like that, just because Fall is coming and very soon it will be much cooler on your side already, and the plant will go to dormancy. It is different if it is still late Spring, there would be still 3 to 4 months of sun and heat which the awakened Plumeria will enjoy a lot with stepped up watering.

Watch your outdoor temps, when my Plumeria was younger, once it starts hitting 50F and below overnight, I pull it back indoors, positioned by our south side window and watering is scaled back.

thank you tarev. yes the weather here is already chilly for me, and i worry about my cuttings every day. it's been dropping to 13C here in the morning when i wake up, according to my phone, but our outdoor thermometer says 10, that's 50F, yikes! tomorrow it should be one degree or 2 warmer, and according to the forecast, it will not be back to these low temps for a few days.

i will bring them in soon and put them on south exposure bay windowsill. should l leave them in the clear water bottles through the dormancy period so i can see the soil or move them to a small pot?

since they're clear and have fairly large air gaps, they all have algae growing in them. is that anything to be concerned with?

I read through this post and the great feedback you have been getting. I don't know if algae is a problem, but it would concern me too. Your roots are looking great and seeing that healthy root that already hit the bottom of the bottle, I personally would repot into a small pot.

I live in Southern CA, so my weather conditions are different than yours. Cold is more of a concern than rain. Plumerias grow naturally in hot, humid and rainy conditions. Remember, I also don't get as much winter rain as you do and no summer rain. My winter nights are generally in the 50s and occassionally in the 40s and I never bring in my potted plumerias because I have too many. Again, I don't have winters like you do or even like Tarev does in Northern CA.

I root my plumerias in a mixture of perlite and pebbles. In a local gardening group I belong to, one of the members mentioned that mixing lava rock into their potting mix of 1/2 cactus mix and 1/2 perlite has made a huge difference in their plumerias (very healthy and lots of blooms). It makes sense since plumerias grow on tropical islands that have volcanic rock as their base. In the future, I will root plumerias in a mixture of perlite, lava rock and pebbles.

I mix my own potting soil of perlite, pumice and peat moss. In the future, I will be adding lava rock to the mixture, even though technically perlite and pumice are lava rock. I don't get root rot with that soil mixture. I put compost on top of that layer and then cover with a wood chip mulch. I remove the wood chip mulch from my potted plumerias before winter for fear of it causing root rot with the colder, damper weather. This spring I did lose a plumeria to root rot because I used too much compost on top (1/2 my soil and 1/2 compost in a 5 gallon pot for a Jungle Jack's Divine dwarf tree.)

Also, just an FYI, orange plumeria flowers need a lot of sun and heat to get that beautiful orange color. I have a no ID orange plumeria that grows yellow flowers until we get a heat wave. Hopefully you have better luck with your hot humid summers.

Please let me know how your roots look when you repot. For me, young roots grow around a sandy mixture and not through it. I'm curious if your roots are growing in the middle of your bottle container thru your sandy perlite mixture.