Avatar for SL_gardener
Nov 26, 2020 2:20 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Scott A
St Louis, Mo (Zone 6a)
I have been experimenting with troughs on a sunny porch, since the rest of my yard has been decimated by an exploding deer population. Since a majority of plants suitable for a trough are better acclimated to an alpine climate, it's been a pretty rough go given our summer heat and humidity. But over the past few years, I have a number of successful tough plants that appear to be thriving. But I'm new to trough gardening and have a number of questions. The soil I've been using is about 1/3rd clay pebbles (meant to serve the same purpose as gravel, but lighter so the troughs can be moved more easily), 1/3rd coarse sand and 1/3rd coarse bark-based soilless potting mix. I know most of these plants thrive in a lean soil, so I don't fertilize and I haven't been amending the soil in any way. Should I be fertilizing or amending the soil annually? One of my dianthus (D. grationopolitanus Nyewood Cream) has formed a dense cushion 10 inches across and is nearly occupying the entire trough. Seems happy, though a very shy bloomer. Maybe a little fertilizer would boost the bloom? Should it be repotted? Also I am aware that many of alpine plants need to avoid winter wet. A couple weeks ago, I moved some troughs under an awning so they receive no rain at all but due to the low angle of the winter sun, they're still getting full sun. But I looked at the troughs today and they are bone dry. The plants still look fine. Does avoiding winter wet mean no water at all? Or should I water them sparingly maybe once a month over winter? Any advice would be well-appreciated!
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Nov 26, 2020 7:01 PM CST
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Region: Utah Bee Lover Garden Photography Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
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Hi Scott--I am no expert on the thing, but, I will tell you what I have learned by desiccating plants... D'Oh! they die.

That said, many plants do just fine dry and dark all winter.

Avoiding winter wet just means avoiding soggy conditions generally, and especially during winter dormancy. It doesn't mean no water ever, at all, or if one drop of rain blows in from the side that everything dies.
The lengths you must go to, to avoid winter wet and rot, are directly related to how much rain you actually get and how well-drained your media is.
I made a lot of planting areas very freely draining all concerned about the 'winter wet' issue, which I don't have a problem with here because snow isn't wet until it melts Hilarious! But of course, now, summer is my biggest problem because it doesn't rain here then either. Sighing!

Anyway,
Nyewood Cream is a nice one; it has topped out at about a 2' spread here so you might consider planting it where it has more room.
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It has also been a consistent massive bloomer for me without any fertilization and our deer don't eat it.
Avatar for SL_gardener
Nov 26, 2020 7:29 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Scott A
St Louis, Mo (Zone 6a)
Thanks for the info.
I think I should be less paranoid about the winter wet issue.
We don't get that much snow - when we do, it melts rather quickly.
But we can get pretty cold - usually less than zero a few times each winter.
But just as often we have a crazy warm spell mid winter with temps near 70.
I guess I'll just go with the notion that my plants will need to be tough.
Avatar for Plant4theApocalypse
Dec 19, 2020 11:48 PM CST

I am a really big fan of scoria or pumice in a trough mix to not only make it lightweight but keep it permanently oxygenated/draining well, so you never have to worry about wetness.

Most folks don't fertilize troughs unless that trough is for very hungry plants (like Aquilegia, or bulbs) or they are gardening in a really wet climate.

Containers getting bone dry in winter is a real pain... I struggle to keep an eye on them because they seem to go gracelessly from an ice cube to totally freeze-dried. I resign myself to "when in doubt, water a little." Everyone has to sort of suss out the balance to strike in their climate... there is a long-standing tradition of piling snow on one's troughs.
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Apr 28, 2021 7:27 AM CST
Name: Mary Stella
Chester, VA (Zone 7b)
Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Peonies Permaculture Ponds
Garden Ideas: Level 2
I have a Little Rock garden (4'x18") beneath a spreading crabapple facing west. It actually does well but every year it is covered in leaves from the tree. In the spring I start getting the wet leaves out from on top of my little plants. I was thinking of putting a little canopy over them to reduce the chance of rotting in the spring. I have lost only one or two tiny plants thus far. I could even leave it all winter as when the wind blows it brings in leaves from other places. Any thoughts?

Oh, I live in Anchorage, Alaska
From -60 Alaska to +100 Virginia. Wahoo
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Apr 28, 2021 8:33 AM CST
Fairfax VA (Zone 7a)
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I reccomend Atlas Daisies!! Super cute! Super fun! Super Fuzzy! Does not care about being wet that much!
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I am very busy right now, sorry about that. I may not be online much.
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Apr 28, 2021 10:09 AM CST
Name: Zoë
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
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I can't think of any reason a little canopy wouldn't work, except to block sunlight, but how much of that do you have in winter way up there? I can imagine how soggy leaves could smother some small plants, not to mention the aesthetic drawbacks. I have similar issues and I've never come up with a remedy: I have a little rock garden and some river rock-covered areas, and cleaning them of leaves in the spring is tedious, although mine are usually dry. I suppose a leaf-blower would work, but I'm not going buy one to use once or twice a year. So far, hand-picking has been my remedy.
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Mar 13, 2022 4:21 PM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
I have a battery powered leaf blower that is light weight and does a great job year-round of keeping leaves and cottonwood tree pollen out of my raised rock garden beds.
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Mar 13, 2022 7:05 PM CST
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Region: Utah Bee Lover Garden Photography Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
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I have one too and unfortunately last fall I didn't bother to use it...nor did I do much of any fall clean up, and yes, I have a big mess this spring Rolling my eyes.
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Mar 13, 2022 7:36 PM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Wish I was closer, I would come help you with spring clean up. Smiling
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Mar 13, 2022 9:23 PM CST
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Region: Utah Bee Lover Garden Photography Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
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it'd be awesome if we were closer for soooo many reasons besides that--thanks for the thought Smiling
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Mar 13, 2022 10:52 PM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
I sure miss you guys.
If I have a gathering at my new place, would you come. Early part of June?
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Mar 13, 2022 11:45 PM CST
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Sempervivums Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Garden Ideas: Master Level
Dirt, I'm not going to wait til then: hopefully my parking reservation on your property was approved by you and ASA nodding for early second week in June on our CO trip back to OR? Whistling
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Mar 14, 2022 9:08 PM CST
Name: Dirt
(Zone 5b)
Region: Utah Bee Lover Garden Photography Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
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Yes Bev!
We are looking forward to your visit in June, and now I understand that it is the early part of the second week that I need to finagle some time off work Smiling
Lynn, I'll be lucky to swing that Crossing Fingers!
Avatar for SL_gardener
May 14, 2022 7:37 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Scott A
St Louis, Mo (Zone 6a)
Here are some blooms from my troughs this spring. Though I threw in a few from the yard as well. All my plants are still small but made it through a couple years, so hopefully will gradually clump up. The plants are:
1. Helianthemum nummularium Henfield Brilliant.
2. Erodium petraeum
3. Saponaria unnamed hybrid from Wrightman Alpines
4. Aethionema saxatile
5. Saponaria lutea
6. Myosotis terglouensis - teeny tiny flowers
7. Minuartia verna. Foliage drapes off the sides of the trough with blooms all along.
8. Alyssum oxycarpum
9. Dianthus Dainty Dame
10. Silene alpestris Flore Pleno
11. Geranium sanguineum
12. Phlox subulata North Hills.
13. Potentilla neumanniana Nana
14. Phlox x Crackerjack.
15. Lewisia 'Constant Comment'
16. Dianthus Grace Bay
17. Rhodohypoxis Hebron Farm Red Eye - has to be overwintered in garage
18. Daphne x hendersonii Fritz Kummert. Still a tiny plant but I love the dark green tiny foliage and deep red buds opening to white flowers with red reverse
19. Marrubium rotundifolium - just for the fuzzy felted leaves. Flowers are forgettable.
20. Erysimum John Codrington
21. Valeriana montana
All of these have made it through several years of totally non-alpine conditions, so hopefully they'll continue to do well.
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May 14, 2022 9:07 AM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Your troughs must be beautiful.
Avatar for SL_gardener
May 14, 2022 3:05 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Scott A
St Louis, Mo (Zone 6a)
Thanks, Lynn. You'll notice my photos are generally close ups of the flowers, not the entire plant or trough - it's because my plants are generally still young and haven't formed those wonderful mounded globs of color we get to see in pictures of Dirt's garden in this thread. I have a couple plants doing super well (maybe even close to Dirt-worthy!) but most are still a slow go. I'm at least pleased that a number of plants seem to be tolerating my climate OK and maybe with time I can show the entire plants!
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May 14, 2022 3:08 PM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Scott, I look forward to seeing your plants in their mature form. They will be beautiful.
I am in that same process right now. We moved summer of 2020.
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May 14, 2022 5:24 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
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We all start somewhere, and you may find that those fast growers now might want to take over tomorrow. Funny, I first grew Valeriana supina in a trough and it grew and spread so much and so fast the first and second year, that I labeled it as invasive. But in a 3.5 inch pot it just stays alive.
Thumb of 2022-05-14/Leftwood/ae3401
For scale, the pink behind is a normal Dianthus callizonus, about 2-2.5 inches high.

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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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May 14, 2022 5:55 PM CST
Fairfax VA (Zone 7a)
The best time of the year is when p
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Where do you get your alpines from? I have a hard time finding affordable sources that don't just sell stuff like sedum or semps
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I am very busy right now, sorry about that. I may not be online much.

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