I like the Hybrid Dreamland Zinnias. This summer I threw a bunch of dead plants in a pile, and later found there were volunteers growing everywhere. I have never had one volunteer grow from my Dreamlands before. Now I threw a bunch of dried flowers in my worm bins, and there are abundant seedlings in there.

Do you know the genetic history of the Dreamland zinnias, and what can I expect from their offspring?

Hi Rubi,

" Do you know the genetic history of the Dreamland zinnias, and what can I expect from their offspring? "

Dreamland is an F1 hybrid zinnia, and consequently will not "come true" from seed. As you have discovered, it can produce an abundance of viable seed. Some of them might be to your liking.

https://www.takii.com/product/...

ZM

So if I grow some to maturity and I like them, if I save seeds from the next generation, will they stay true to type?

Hi Rubi,

" So if I grow some to maturity and I like them, if I save seeds from the next generation, will they stay true to type? "

They won't be perfectly true type, in fact, they may vary a lot, but if you save seeds from your favorites among them, you can get further improvement (lack of wild variations). And if you save seeds from your favorites of those, you can get still further improvement. It can take six to eight generations of selection to convert an F1 hybrid to a stable strain. The process of doing that is sometimes called "dehybridization". Because zinnias have a lot of genetic factors, you might even get some that are better, in your eyes, than the original F1 hybrids. And different people have different tastes in what they like in a zinnia. I like zinnias with different flower forms than the usual seed packet forms, and my home-hybrid zinnias reflect my preferences. (You can click on these photos to see larger versions of them, which you can then close by clicking on the "X" in the lower righthand corner of the large photo.)




I have fun breeding zinnias as a hobby.

ZM

I really like that first one you have in your photo series. I bet the hummingbirds like the tubular petal form.

Hi Rubi,

" I bet the hummingbirds like the tubular petal form. "

They do. I also put up some commercial hummingbird feeders.


We live in a rural area and our nearest neighbor is far enough away that our hummingbirds don't do like "city birds" and feed from more than one household. So we usually don't have more than six or eight hummingbirds. When we lived in town (many years ago) a feeder could attract an aerial battle of many hummingbirds. We do see a few "boss" hummingbirds chase others away from a feeder. For that reason we put up several feeders. Last year we had an odd occurrence of honeybees sucking our feeders dry. And that, even though the description of the feeders said they were resistant to bees. You can see several bees in that photo. Oh well.

ZM

I plan on growing Magellan zinnia and I have the same question with the Dreamland. I understand their offspring will not come true. How much of a variation would they have in appearance? Will the offspring end up as tall zinnias instead of stocky ones like the original Magellan?

Hi Cyn,

I haven't grown either Dreamland or Magellan, because both are lower growing zinnia varieties and I am concentrating on regular height or higher zinnias. As F1 hybrids, saving seeds from Magellan and/or Dreamland will probably result in considerable variation from the parent varieties, but you should get some that resemble the parents reasonably well. A few might even be better. Crossing Dreamland with Magellan could be interesting. It is possible to "de-hybridize" a hybrid by saving seed only from its "on type" progeny for several generations. Keep us posted on your activities with Zinnias.

ZM

That's interesting a hybrid can be "de-hybridized". This is my first time growing zinnias. You're making me too curious. I'm going to save seeds from the Magellan and try growing them just to find out. I think I'm going to be in for a surprise. I haven't seen zinnias like yours before. They remind me of coral reefs. They also remind me of the Cactus Zinnia in a way.

Hi Cyn,

" I haven't seen zinnias like yours before. They remind me of coral reefs."
Also, some of my home-hybridized zinnias remind me of undersea things that grow in or near coral reefs. Especially the ones with very narrow tubular petals.

Stay on the lookout for anything unusual that appears in your zinnias, and save seeds from them to develop your own stock of different zinnias.

ZM

This had been an informative post. I was surprised a couple of years ago that I wasn't able to get many of the single colors of the Parks Dreamland or Magellan seeds any longer. The disease resistance on the Magellans is especially good in my climate. Sad really that you can't seem to ever get the original series characteristics back from seed.................Maryl

Hello Maryl,

" I was surprised a couple of years ago that I wasn't able to get many of the single colors of the Parks Dreamland or Magellan seeds any longer. "

Dreamland is not produced by Park Seed, or exclusive to them. They just buy it in bulk from the Japanese breeder, Takii, and put it in their own seed packets. That is not dishonest, most of the retail seed companies do that. This is a list of seed companies that sell some of the Takii seeds.

https://www.takii.com/flowers/...

I don't grow the shorter zinnias, so I don't grow Dreamland or Magellan. I guess you could say that White is my favorite zinnia color, and Dreamland does not offer a true White. The closest it has is Ivory. I think Magellan may have a true White.

" The disease resistance on the Magellans is especially good in my climate. Sad really that you can't seem to ever get the original series characteristics back from seed"

It is true that F1 hybrid zinnias do not "come true" from seed, but if you grow a lot of them and keep only the ones that are closest to the originals, you can "de-hybridize" them to something that comes true and is similar to the original F1 hybrid. You might have a lot of variations and, among those, you might even find some that you liked better than the original F1.

ZM

Thank you so much for the information Zenman. I have saved the seed places to look at later. Is the name designation "Dreamland" a proprietary name that would be still attached to the cultivar from another seed company other then Parks?............Last year I bought some Magellan Coral seed off of someone on Etsy. I wondered how she got the seed, since I didn't find the "coral" colored one anywhere. Of the two plants I sowed and grew on, one was different from the other (but still pretty nice). I bet now I know why......The disease resistance on both was still much better then the off the rack Scarlet no name Zinna plant I bought at a nursery. To give you some example of the difference in the plants this is a picture of my "Magellan" Coral Zinna from the etsy seeds after months in our humid fungus ridden climate:



Below is the no name nursery brand name "Scarlet" colored zinnia around the same time:



You can see why I miss my Magellan brand so much. Dreamland has similar resistance, but not always as good as Magellan.......Again, thank you for all the information you've shared. I too like Zinnias and wish you every success with your hybridization programs..............Maryl

Hello Maryl,

" Is the name designation "Dreamland" a proprietary name that would be still attached to the cultivar from another seed company other then Parks? "

Yes, any legitimate seed company would sell Dreamland seeds under the name Dreamland. I have never purchased seeds from an Etsy seller. Your Etsy Coral Magellan photo is impressive. Here is an example of another legitimate seed seller offering Dreamland zinnia seed under the name "Dreamland".

https://www.harrisseeds.com/pr...

Dreamland is actually a rather old (20 years old) zinnia variety. I think Magellan is a bit newer, at least more generally available (and with a better White). Magellans are also generally available under the name "Magellan".

ZM

Hello again, Maryl,

" You can see why I miss my Magellan brand so much. "

You should not have any trouble finding Magellan zinnia seeds. I can identify some sources if you haven't already found them. Since Magellan is an F1 hybrid, I think I would prefer a "known" seed company rather than an Etsy source, although I wouldn't eliminate Etsy as a source. I have just never used them.

ZM

The "Coral" Magellan Zinnia was a 2005 AAS winner, so it was mystifying to me as to why I couldn't find it in individual packets and why I resorted to Etsy. However, many seed companies have gone to "mixes" instead of individual colors in the last decade or so, which is a waste of resources and effort if all a person wants is a few specific colors of a series. I see Jung's carries the Coral Magellan seed this year, but since I still have left overs from the Etsy seller, I'll roll the dice and use that seed again this year........The name information is helpful and I thank you for answering me about that. Best to you in the upcoming gardening season.........Maryl

ZenMan ~ I just followed your suggestion to look at the Takii link and found 2 really nice whites from Jung Seeds.

https://www.jungseed.com/produ...
https://www.jungseed.com/produ...

Happy gardening,

Evelyn

Maryl said: However, many seed companies have gone to "mixes" instead of individual colors in the last decade or so, which is a waste of resources and effort if all a person wants is a few specific colors of a series. I see Jung's carries the Coral Magellan seed this year, but since I still have left overs from the Etsy seller, I'll roll the dice and use that seed again this year.

I like mixed colors every once in awhile, but mostly I want to choose separate colors. I wish I could get a bag of Starbursts with only orange! I like the red and rose Dreamlands. I did try the corals from Etsy last year (seed store in Elma, WA?) and I really liked them.
Your second year seeds should still be fine. I've had success with seeds in the third year. That's the oldest I've tried though.

Patch of Coral, and patch of Red Dreamland (with one renegade rose)



Coral Dreamland




Rose Dreamland

Are the Magellans bigger in size than Dreamland? Magellan is such a popular variety I'm surprised they are not sold as individual colors.

Hello Cyn,

Magellan blooms are a bit larger than Dreamland blooms. Magellan was developed several years later than Dreamland and probably is an improvement. Magellans are indeed available in separate colors. One retailer of them is Hazzard Seeds.

https://www.hazzardsgreenhouse...

There are probably several other seed sellers who offer Magellans in separate colors.

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)