This is the saddest orchid I have. It has had a bloom spike that splits 3 ways on it for as long as I've had it and they've never progressed to anything past little buds......it shed 3 leaves recently but I think that is normal for some phals? But it has these ugly black spots. This orchid really hates life...there have been times where it has shot out some beautiful, thick roots and then they just shrivel away....It is trying to make that new leaf there...

Whatcha think?

I don't grow phals, they are just not worth the trouble! And you can get them for 10.00, so a perfect impulse buy at the grocery store but I know better than to think I should waste time on them.

I agree with you somewhat. This orchid was on sale, pretty big, dirt cheap, not in bloom...I probably should have known better. But I am stubborn and want to play detective with this pitiful soul's problem!

Let me give you a hint and then you can go play detective. What you have there is Bacterial Soft Rot or Erwinia carotovora. Your job, Kate, is to go research that and come up with a solution. I'll be here tapping my foot.

Jim

I agree with Jim, it is probably bacterial soft-rot or bacterial brown rot. The treatment is the same for both.

I'm with you, Kate. I like to 'rescue' the cheap ones at Lowe's that have finished blooming, and I've had some success with them, at least the first year. Now I have a collection of about 9 that are pretty finicky and not all that willing to bloom. I've moved them again this year so hopefully a bit more light will inspire them.

I had one that developed soft rot spots like that. I don't know if I 'cured' it or if it just healed up on its own, but I treated the spots with cinnamon powder, let the plant completely dry out for a week or two in a shady spot (good weather for that, right now - low humidity). and although the scars remained, the rot didn't progress. Still have that plant, scarred leaves and all.

Oops, sorry to spoil your 'exercise' for Kate there, Jim. "Your job, Mr. Phelps, should you choose to accept it . . "

Anyway, I was just wondering if they might not also be sun burn spots, originally? How much light is that orchid getting, Kate? Phals really do not do well with any direct sunlight, and the sun is getting stronger every day here. The leaves get lighter green like that when they are getting high levels of light. Those Phals with the purple leaf reverse usually have very dark green leaves.

I must thank you, Jim, for allowing me to do this investigation myself....this bacteria is absolutely fascinating. I have a background in microbiology; I was research assistant to the Distinguished Chair in Agriculture at VA Tech for years until simultaneously he moved to another university and I became pregnant with my little kiddo. I cherished him dearly; he also never just gave me the answer...and thus I learned so much from him.

This bacteria has some truly remarkable weapons...enzymes that are like soldiers who are sent to destroy the plant's first defenses.... enzymes who are produced only in certain manners under certain conditions...i.e. temperature, colonization numbers, oxygen presence, etc. And there's so much more sophistication to this tiny little cell than we'd ever appreciate.

Here is my plan of attack and tell me if you approve. The plant is mounted to a removable piece of pecky cypress board...I will remove the entire mount. Then, remove those black spots with a sterilized exacto knife...and isolate & treat the entire plant with a copper based treatment. I did read an interesting article about the use of salicylic acid on Erwinia, which is a popular and easily obtainable acne/toe fungus treatment, so I think I may try copper on one leaf, and weak salicylic acid solution on the other, just for fun.

This isn't a valuable plant, but the experimentation is the thrilling bit for me. This isn't a properly designed experiment by any means, either. But I care not!

One more thing about using cinnamon, I discovered.....the effective component of cinnamon is cinnamaldehyde, which stimulates and is crucial in the production of lignin, which is a dense plant fiber that Erwinia enzymes cannot degrade. Perhaps the cinnamon treatment stimulates the growth of an effective wall of lignin in some plants, thus defeating or reducing the Erwinia invasion.

Good research, Kate. Before going too far, try dabbing some hydrogen peroxide on the spots just as you would a cut on your finger. After all, if it kills bacteria on your finger, why not on your plant?

Jim

I discovered a Cat. a couple of months ago that had two of these lesions on one leaf. They appeared to be Bacterial Soft Rot. They were evident only on the top of the leaf. The bottom-side looked fine. I dabbed hydrogen peroxide on the lesions, repeated the application the next day, and then sprinkled cinnamon over the area. I did not cut away any tissue. The lesions now appear about the same, but are "drier-looking". They did not spread (a yellow hallo around the lesions never has formed) and the bottom of the leaf still looks normal. I have this particular orchid out front and on a lower shelf so that I have to look at it every time I visit the greenhouse.

I have read in some other orchid forums a spray of Listerine, the original formulation, can be used too. Then plant has to be kept dry to recover.

One of my noid Phals, also had something similar when I got it as a gift, but I did not do any spraying on it, just kept it drier than most. It took awhile to recover, seems really nothing was happening, but those blackened spots did not spread nor further hurt the plant. A new leaf has now grown, so I am reassured plant is recovering. Still keeping my watering at root zone level, nothing on the leaves. I have all my Phals indoors. I am waiting for the plant to just naturally drop the leaf. It is on the lower part, so am sure it will do it pretty soon.

Jim-- My first instinct was hydrogen peroxide after reading that Erwinia produces its damaging enzymes in an anaerobic environment, and hydrogen peroxide oxygenates whatever it's applied to.....I read a study from the University of Australia that discusses copper fungicide as effective treatment so that's why I went with that...but I kinda wish I had just tried the h. peroxide first!

Ken--My phal's lesions are the same...no halo, no spread...how is your Cat doing after that treatment? Anything new growing?

Here's a photo closeup of that weird flower spike. Is it all mangled and stunted looking because the plant is trying to recover first?

Whoops, guess it would help if I actually uploaded the photo. Duhhhh

That almost looks like a manganese deficiency but I've never read about that on orchids. It is not rare to see old Phal spikes branch off like that and bloom, Perhaps it is the bacterial infection that is causing the strange angular growth.

Jim

Kate, this plant is Lc. Sheila Lauterbach 'Equilab' FCC/AOS. I got this plant from Lindsey when she was down-sizing two years ago and it really hasn't done much for me. I think the plant is a fairly rare, fairly expensive one and that's why I continue to baby it and hope it gets a foothold and grows. So any lack of growth can't be attributed to the Bacterial Soft Rot on that single leaf. When received, this plant had several of its large leaves cropped off, and that could have been due to accident or disease. I will never know. I don't think this plant has ever lost a leaf and don't think it has grown any either.

Jim, I have a Strobilanthes, Crocodile fern and Batflower that are all twisting and mangling their leaves....just in one section of a small garden...could that be manganese deficiency?

Ken, sounds like it's frozen in time How long has it been like that?

Not likely, Kate.You'd see it on your palms first - a V-shaped discoloring of the fronds down the centers.

Manganese is a trace element, so most plants don't use an awful lot. More likely your misshapen leaves on the other plants are due to the cold nights we've had. Those tropical divas don't like to get cooled off too much. Is that section of your garden maybe more exposed to the cold NW winds?

18 months.

Elaine, bingo...that must be it. There are plants maybe 6 feet away that are nestled in a corner fence that look great. The border guys are getting beat up. I might dig up that croc fern and put it somewhere else. It's just too cool looking to ignore.

Ken, 18 months??? Ughhhhhhhhh.....long time!

I am a (sometimes) patient guy.