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Jan 18, 2019 9:34 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
I wrote the reply below in another forum and figured some of you might be interested in it...FWIW This was in reply to a post in a thread entitled "Things that annoy you." Smiling

Gregor, post: 11702443, member: 17524 said:TPMS. The only time it ever kicks on is when we have a very cold snap. So I'm on my hands and knees at some gas station airing up the tires.

A couple of problems with TPMS and their stems...

There are two types of stems. One is a regular-looking, rubber "snap-in" stem which work great. Then you have the silver metal "can" type...these are more prone to leakage. With the rubber snap-in style stem the entire outside of the stem is rubber which creates a thick rubber seal at the valve stem hole. If you bump this stem...washing the car, a tree branch is run over and flips up to strike the stem, etc., the rubber stem has the ability to flex a great deal. With the metal "can" type of stem they are rigid and made of a type of aluminum(?) that is subject to corrosion. There is a a small o-ring inside these metal stem assemblies. As the stem ages a spot of corrosion can cause that little o-ring to start leaking. Being of a rigid design, bumping the stem can definitely cause the stem to leak, not always but it certainly increases the chance. I've seen the metal stems so corroded that to remove them you literally have to twist them in half or even reach for a dremel. Leaks from the metal can stems can be very slow...kid's soap bubble solution is good for detecting this...cover the entire stem with the solution from base to top (remove the cap)...and give it time to create a small foamy area which denotes a leak. If the leak is very bad it won't take long to tell you, if it's very slow it can take a few minutes.

When the sensors get older their batteries start going out and can be aggravating for the car owner. If your TPMS light comes on and all of your tires check out to be properly inflated be sure to check your spare tire...sometimes they include a sensor but are almost never checked. While we're on the spare...when was the last time you checked the air pressure in yours? Sensors have come down in price over the last few years but still cost a fair amount. A large tire dealer or car dealer should be able to test your sensors and replace them.

TPMS systems have a "set point" of several psi. You should still regularly check the psi in your tires. Some systems have as much as 5psi of a set point...a vehicle spec'd out at 35psi won't alert the driver until the tire is down to 30psi. Or, a setpoint of 3psi wouldn't alert the driver until a tire got down to 32psi. The problem is most air loss is a gradual process so the tires could be under inflated for months before the TPMS light comes on at the set point. This means you are actually running the tires in an under-inflated/over-loaded state which affects safety, handling/performance, carrying capacity, tire wear, gas mileage, etc.,. So, regularly checking your tires' psi will pay dividends. Look for your specified air pressure on a label attached (usually) to the driver's door post or running board. I wouldn't object to having an extra couple of pounds of air in my tires.

Winding up here (this got much longer than I intended!). For the first few years after TPMS came out the systems were thoroughly aggravating and they still are to a degree. But, what they will do is save you from having to buy a tire that on common vehicles are $125+ dollars on up to literally several hundred dollars. As you're driving down the road and the light comes on you have an opportunity to pull over and check your tires before you get to a "run flat" condition in which the tire is totally destroyed. A leaking tire can often be repaired if not run-flat. Even more important than keeping from destroying a tire, a TPMS alert also prevents you from experiencing a catastrophic tire failure at highway speeds, which can be deadly, seriously.

Tires will lose air pressure naturally over an extended period of time...nitrogen filled tires help slow this process down, but even those tires will gradually lose pressure. If you wait until your TPMS light comes on you've waited too long to check the air pressure in your tires *or* you're experiencing a leak of some sort. If you regularly (once a month is best) check the air pressure then you will get the best tire wear/mileage, best gas mileage, best handling and performance *and* you'll know when a TPMS light comes on that you have a real issue.

As the OP mentioned, cold weather can drop your tire's air pressure by several pounds. I mentioned that I don't mind a couple of extra pounds of air in my tires...in cold weather I especially like that little bit of extra air. If you do add a little extra be sure to check out the ride and handling of the vehicle as compared to where the air pressure was before as it may (or may not) be different.

One last minor tip. Keep valve caps on your valve stems. The caps keep moisture and dirt from entering the valve and causing problems. Walk up and down the street and see some nice vehicles with the tires' valve cores exposed to the elements. Cheap insurance.

TPMS is aggravating/annoying. But if the driver keeps a check on his/her tires' air pressure and pays attention to the TPMS alerts then money can be saved...and possibly even lives.

FWIW
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Jan 18, 2019 10:50 AM CST
Name: Mac
Still here (Zone 6a)
Ex zones 4b, 8b, 9a, 9b
Cat Lover Region: Ukraine Birds Hummingbirder Butterflies Frogs and Toads
Vermiculture Critters Allowed Vegetable Grower Canning and food preservation Annuals Morning Glories
I believe our metal stems are stainless steel. I've encountered many broken rubber stems and ones that leak around the base from aging. We've had no issues with our TPMS and it seems quite accurate when checked with our digital pressure gauge. Your mileage may vary.
Slava Ukraini!

The aboriginal peoples and many cultures throughout the world share a common respect for nature and the universe, and all of the life that it holds. We could learn much from them!
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Jan 18, 2019 12:28 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
Well, maybe they are stainless steel. The ones that I've worked with sure are lightweight, especially the "can"/nut part of them.

Rubber stems are much more resistant to bending damage than metal stems are, there's no doubt in my mind about that. Rubber valve stems usually leak from just the reason you state...age. Old, cracking, leaking rubber valve stems are usually the sign of two things...new valve stems were not replaced along with the last tires installed or the tires on the vehicle haven't gotten too old to be safe and the stems are following suit. Sure, you can break a rubber valve stem but it'll take a much more severe bend/impact to break it than it will a metal stem. If I bend a rubber stem to a forty-five degree angle it bounces back to it's installed position. If I bend a metal stem to a forty-five degree angle it doesn't seem to bounce back into position.

Most people with the can/metal stems will never have an issue with them. But, if you start having a mystery leak in a tire...check the stem with the soap bubble liquid and give it time to build up that little pile of foamy bubbles.

Here are some photos of the two types of stems.

The rubber stem is all one piece except for the valve core...the sensor screws onto the end of the stem where the star-headed screw is shown. New stems are replaced by unscrewing the screw that holds the sensor on, and attaching a new stem with a new screw.

The small o-ring (shown removed from the metal stem) is the seal for the metal stem. It is slid down onto the stem, the stem is inserted into the rim, and the "can" is screwed down from the outside to create a seal by compression. The sensor on most all of them that I've seen is non-removable from the assembly. To "renew" this type of stem a kit is used that has a new o-ring, valve stem, and can. Care needs to be taken so that the can is torqued to a specific inch-pound so as not to distort the seal. Having said that, if you find your stem leaking around the base or out of the top of the can you may think that simply tightening it up some will stop the leak...it usually doesn't help or it makes it leak worse.
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I *much* prefer the rubber snap-in stems, to each his own. nodding Naturally our Honda Pilot has the metal stems and my 2003 jeep has no TPMS. Rolling my eyes.
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Jan 18, 2019 1:13 PM CST
Name: Mac
Still here (Zone 6a)
Ex zones 4b, 8b, 9a, 9b
Cat Lover Region: Ukraine Birds Hummingbirder Butterflies Frogs and Toads
Vermiculture Critters Allowed Vegetable Grower Canning and food preservation Annuals Morning Glories
We don't have "scrape the curb" issues here, and the metal stems are inset far enough that they won't contact anything under any normal conditions. The rubber ones on the dually are also well inset. No TPMS on it due to age.
Slava Ukraini!

The aboriginal peoples and many cultures throughout the world share a common respect for nature and the universe, and all of the life that it holds. We could learn much from them!
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Jan 18, 2019 2:09 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
McCannon said:We don't have "scrape the curb" issues here, and the metal stems are inset far enough that they won't contact anything under any normal conditions. The rubber ones on the dually are also well inset. No TPMS on it due to age.


I really don't see many "scrape the curb" problems. Most problems are from running in brush, road debris hopping up and entering the hub/wheel area, user-caused "oops" situations, etc.,. Most stems are inset from the wheel rim lip enough to protect them from curb damage.
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You have rubber stems on a dually? Rubber base with a brass stem? Solid rubber?
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Jan 18, 2019 2:29 PM CST
Name: Mac
Still here (Zone 6a)
Ex zones 4b, 8b, 9a, 9b
Cat Lover Region: Ukraine Birds Hummingbirder Butterflies Frogs and Toads
Vermiculture Critters Allowed Vegetable Grower Canning and food preservation Annuals Morning Glories
Rubber base w/brass stem.
Slava Ukraini!

The aboriginal peoples and many cultures throughout the world share a common respect for nature and the universe, and all of the life that it holds. We could learn much from them!
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Jan 18, 2019 3:09 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Ed
South Alabama (Zone 8b)
Beekeeper Vegetable Grower Enjoys or suffers hot summers Seed Starter Region: Alabama Garden Procrastinator
Container Gardener Butterflies Birds Bee Lover Zinnias
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