I just added what I was calling Cattleya leopoldii x bowringiana as Cattlianthe Bactia in the Database.

When I got this orchid as an unbloomed seedling, I was told by the grower he had hybridized it and maybe, hopefully, it would have spots. It doesn't but, BigBill immediately said it was Cattleya Bactia and had been hybridized back in 1904. A confusing moment for me because the guy I got it from does hybridize orchids and has always been very honest. So, I assumed, I had misunderstood.

When you look for Cattleya Bactia in the Database, Cattlianthe Bactia is what pops up. Neither of those names are in the Catalogue of Life. But, I continued and listed and my photo was accepted as the first ever of that species.

Reading the info in the Database... The parentage of Cattleya/Cattlianthe Bactia is Guarianthe bowringiana X Cattleya guttata. The parentage of my plant is Cattleya leopoldii x bowringiana. I know leopoldii and guttata are very similar but, not the same plant. Maybe I have a Bactia look-alike because of the similar parentage? And my plant should not be listed as C. Bactia but rather as a new plant? The label did say leopoldii, not guttata.

I would guess that your grower might have repeated that cross. He probably did not have had the original cultivar handy to do the cross, hence perhaps the question regarding spots.

Regarding the guttata versus leopoldii, I usually look first at Kew/ Checklist of Selected Plant families,
I typed in Cattleya guttata
https://wcsp.science.kew.org/p...
a whole list of possibilities/var., sub var. , f pops up

and one of the choices was this
https://wcsp.science.kew.org/n...
looks like a synonym

Hope that helps

This is one reason I don't show/ or take orchids too seriously. Too much controversy/confusion re; names.

Is there a way to go back and add a note saying this particular plant has Cattleya leopoldii x bowringiana parentage?

I would ask @Australis, Joshua please.

Hi Daisy,

Sorry about the confusion with this. Since it was identified as Bactia, I added Orchid (Cattlianthe Bactia) to the database. Since Bactia is a man-made hybrid, it won't be listed in the Catalogue of Life (that only lists species and natural hybrids). Instead it will be listed in the RHS Orchid Register.

However, if it is leopoldii X bowringiana, then it is an unregistered cross of Cattleya tigrina X Guarianthe bowringiana (so it would still be a Cattlianthe). C. leopoldii is now a synonym of C. tigrina.

The easiest option is to edit the caption of the image (which I've just done):


Alternatively, you can post a comment on the photo with further information about that specific plant.

Are you able to confirm with the seller the details of the cross? I suspect there is a spotless form of C. leopoldii (since this name used to exist), so that might explain the lack of spots on your plant. If this isn't Bactia, I need to move the photo to the general Cattlianthe entry until it is registered.

Thank you Australis. I'll try to get in touch with the seller (Sean Abbott).

Let me explain further. Bifoliate Cattleyas are my first Love in orchids. They still are. This Cattleya guttata/leopoldii/tigrina business, species or no species has been going on for over 50 years.
I have grown both and from a vegetative and flower standpoint, guttata and leopoldii are very different. Guttata is larger, more robust, carries more flowers then leopoldii. Leopoldii has thinner pseudobulbs, more slender leaves, is a smaller plant with fewer flowers.
The first Bactia was registered by Veitchii way back when. I said that it had been remade many times. Whenever it was remade, the hybridizer is not permitted to rename the cross.
Since I consider leopoldii to be a variety of guttata, a cross of either with bowringiana would be the same hybrid.
Kew who are the official registrar of hybrid names and the AOS, do not see eye to eye on lots of things.


But you know what, I have had enough. I am tired of being attacked both face to face and behind my back. This will be my last post for a while. I really do not need to concern myself with imaginary experts any more.
Take care all and be well.
BigBill out!!

I don't think anyone was attacking you in this thread, Bill. We're just trying to sort out where this plant should go. The database follows the Catalogue of Life and KEW WSCP for species (and RHS Orchid Register for Orchids), so we need to keep it consistent. There's plenty of room for comments about the validity of taxonomical decisions on the plant entries in the database and I myself add and update comments on the Cymbidium species from time to time.

Ummm... That wasn't an attack, that was an order of events and an attempt, on my part, to get through the confusion. I'm sorry if I offended you, @BigBill. That was never my intent.

I finally heard back from Sean Abbott, the hybrizer of this particular plant. Sean also included two photos of the G. bowringiana he used in the cross.

Hi Christine,

Nice orchid! Thanks for the photo, the flowers look as expected, shape with the leopoldii influence and color from the bowringiana. Too bad about lacking spots. The parentage is from some Canadian plants crossed in Alberta in the late 90's. The Guarianthe bowringiana used as pod parent was a huge specimen plant at the University of Alberta Devonian Botanic Garden, the pollen parent was definitely the Cattleya leopoldii type, but I don't think I have a photo. The rules for orchid name registration may still treat Cattleya guttata and Cattleya leopoldii as the same, hence the name Bactia perhaps applies to both forms of the hybrid. It looks like Cattleya tigrina is the new accepted species name for the creature we have called Cattleya leopoldii or Cattleya guttata var. leopoldii. You would need to ask a AOS judge like Ramon De Los Santos for confirmation of hybrid name according to current registration rules.

Your orchids look great in the photo,

Sean

Thanks Daisy. Sounds like it is indeed the unregistered hybrid of Cattleya tigrina X Guarianthe bowringiana, so I have moved the photo to the generic Cattlianthe entry for the time being.

Thanks Australis!