Image
Oct 31, 2019 1:48 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
The cataphyll is an important part of a lot of plants. In aroids it can help alert you to a new leaf that is emerging. A cataphyll is a modified leaf that surrounds a new developing leaf and protects it as it emerges. In some cases, the morphology and characteristics of the cataphyll can help determine the differences between species.

Some cataphylls are easy to see like the one on this Alocasia cuprea
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/d3ea69

But not all species of Alocasia make cataphylls like that one. Some just have the cataphyll as an extension of the existing petiole of the last leaf to emerge, like in this A. macrorhizza albo-variegata
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/2c4655

Some cataphylls die off after the leaf emerges like this old brown one on this Philodendron spectabile. This should not be mistaken for a problem with the plant
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/042903

Others do not die off but instead become ornamental themselves, as on this Philodendron grazielae
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/946724


Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/03a892

Creeping terrestrial aroids like Philodendron gloriosum whose leaves arise from the buried trunks do not show cataphylls
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/6bd533

Some large growing root climbers like this Rhaphidophora decursiva incorporate a terminal cataphyll as the plant climbs
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/6ca880


Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/421487

And some are just plain gorgeous....like the ones on this Philodendron 'Ace of Spades'. If you look really close you can see the new red leaf about to emerge
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/112279
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Avatar for Adriennevs
Oct 31, 2019 2:07 PM CST
Name: Adrienne
Ohio (Zone 6b)
This is very interesting. Thank you for showing the examples of what the cataphyll can look like on various plants. I was able to go to many of my plants and see how it functions differently for different plants. It's very pronounced on my Congos and McColley but seems to flake off on my heart leaf philodendrons. I never knew what this thing was, but I had often heard In my early days of collecting that the "sheath" is one way you can tell the difference between a green heart leaf philodendron and a pothos.
Image
Oct 31, 2019 2:09 PM CST
Name: Dick Strever
No.Calif amongst the Redwoods (Zone 9a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Region: California
i have always wondered if there was a word describing this
here is an image of my little Ring of fire with what is maybe a cataphyll ?


Thumb of 2019-10-31/Strever/95ea8a
Gardens are a thing of Beauty and a job forever
Image
Oct 31, 2019 3:49 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
Looks like one to me.
This is what happens when there is damage to a cataphyll while the leaf still is all furled up inside. This is mechanical damage that cut through the layers and left holes
Thumb of 2019-10-31/Gina1960/92fcd1
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Last edited by Gina1960 Oct 31, 2019 3:50 PM Icon for preview
Image
Nov 1, 2019 2:23 PM CST
Southern Indiana (Zone 6a)
I'll quit while I'm ahead...
Annuals Tomato Heads Garden Procrastinator Native Plants and Wildflowers Houseplants Growing under artificial light
Frogs and Toads Dog Lover Container Gardener Cactus and Succulents Aroids Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Here's my a. micholitziana 'Frydek' and a. sanderiana hybrid 'Poly' without and with a cataphyll!
Thumb of 2019-11-01/CrazedHoosier/3f3b69


Thumb of 2019-11-01/CrazedHoosier/9c10de

I always just used to call them leaf sheaths. Hilarious! The cataphylls on my philodendron Brazil, are kinda ugly.
Maybe we should get a second opinion...
Last edited by CrazedHoosier Nov 1, 2019 2:40 PM Icon for preview
Image
Nov 1, 2019 8:05 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
Strever said:i have always wondered if there was a word describing this
here is an image of my little Ring of fire with what is maybe a cataphyll ?


Thumb of 2019-10-31/Strever/95ea8a



Mine has one too! I was going to tell you. I talked to Barry Yinger. He was the owner of Asiatica Nursery back in the day (it closed in 2010 due to the economic woes) and he told me that he obtained Ring of Fire while on a trip to Thailand. It is apparently a chimeric genetic mutation of the hybrid Jungle Boogie.No one really knows the exact parentage.
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Image
Nov 2, 2019 5:38 PM CST
Name: Dick Strever
No.Calif amongst the Redwoods (Zone 9a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Region: California
there sure are a lot of variation being shown in them for sale & some are really nice
i was cheap and bought small and will have to wait to see what it becomes
and jungle boogie is offered all over the place all the time
wonder why no body has figured out the ancestry ?
Gardens are a thing of Beauty and a job forever
Image
Nov 2, 2019 7:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
I always thought to myself privately that it looked like a variegated J. Boogie. But you never know. Some folks I have asked about it say that they are reluctant to think that P. tortum is a parent. Wendglerii yes, tortum no. Which puzzles me, due to the narrow leaves, but I am not a Philo hybridizer so I cannot say.

It is my dream to have a chimera sprout up in my collection. I have an ALocasia sanderiana 'Nobilis' which has variegated tendencies, and a Philo gloriosum that has thrown variegated leaves in the past. If I could get one that was stable, and propagate it, it would be really great.

Thailand has always been the place for new aroids, they breed a lot of stuff and have for over 20 years,
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Image
Nov 2, 2019 8:12 PM CST
Name: Dick Strever
No.Calif amongst the Redwoods (Zone 9a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Region: California
back in 09 LariAnn was having a conversation with a Philo nutt from Australia about Asiatica Nursery plants and this was said
Ring of Fire looks to be a variegated clone of the hybrid Keith Henderson did , using pollen from a tortum onto a wendlandii hybrid . Harold Cooper named it Hendersons Pride.
Gardens are a thing of Beauty and a job forever
Image
Nov 2, 2019 8:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
Barry Yinger disputes this. I thought the same for a number of years. I am not certain we will ever really know. I have had a number of aroid hybridizers say that it does not seem 'likely' that Ring of Fire came from a cross with tortum
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Image
Nov 3, 2019 9:24 PM CST
Name: Dick Strever
No.Calif amongst the Redwoods (Zone 9a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Region: California
so you have been checking this out Smiling and talking to Barry changed you thoughts

Gina1960 said:This discussion was going around in 2009. 'Ring of Fire' came into the market AS 'Ring of Fire' via a PA nursery called Asiatica which was known to make up creative names for plants. They gave it the name 'Ring of Fire' and apparently it stuck. It is believed to be a hybrid which was made by a gentleman named Keith Henderson. He used Philodendron tortum ( kind of rare and expensive nowadays) as the pollen parent and Philodendron wendlandii (ditto the expense) as the ovule parent. It was originally called Henderson's Pride. What I am not certain of is whether Henderson ever patented the plant under that name, and if he didn't, its likely it got one-upped from him and when renamed Ring of Fire that name stuck . For stuff like this, its my understanding that if you have something unique and unusual and don't patent it, and it gets introduced on a more widely spread basis, even if you are the one who crossed it, someone else can patent it.
Gardens are a thing of Beauty and a job forever
Image
Nov 4, 2019 6:30 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
I always try to check stuff out when I get a new plant for myself. There is surprisingly little information inline about Philodendron Ring of Fire and another one that is much like it called Caramel Marble. The information about Ring of Fire being a potential hybrid between P. wendlingerim and P. tortum was one of the odd tidbits about it. But since Barry Yinger actually introduced it at Asiatica, I decided to go to the source. He is my Facebook friend, and I bought plants from him back in the day before he closed the nursery in 2010, so I decided to ask him.
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Image
Nov 4, 2019 11:40 AM CST
Name: Dick Strever
No.Calif amongst the Redwoods (Zone 9a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Pacific Northwest Region: California
as you say if Yinger doesn't think it is from a cross with tortum then it most likely is not.
i see yours is about the same size as mine
but your winter greenhouse conditions will be many times better then mine
i set my thermostat to 50° for the winter because of our outrageous high electric
Gardens are a thing of Beauty and a job forever
Image
Nov 4, 2019 1:29 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
I got mine from a friend who took pity on me whining that I really needed one but missed them when there was a limited number available. It is small but hey its ok by me. It'll grow. We are still warm here, we had our first real cold snap this last weekend, it got down to 47 on Saturday night. Last night it was back to 60 and the rest of this week 65-66 at night. We don;t have a real chance usually for real cold until at least December although there are rare times we do get something. The fronts come in waves, here then gone, they don;t stick around. Its like a roller coaster. I usually set mine to 60 when I use it.

Yeah, I always thought that Ring and Caramel Marble looked like Jungle Boogie, who no one knows the parentage of either. If they were not vining I might think they were Thaumatophyllums like Xanadu.
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Avatar for TitoBandito
Feb 13, 2021 4:54 PM CST
Copenhagen
@Gina1960, hi again! May I ask about the terminal cataphyll? Are they keepers or do I cut them off? I got couple of plants recently that seem to have cataphylls which are not planning to turn into leaves. They are very young plants, some with just one leaf and I'm not sure what to do. All are various philodendrons (plowmanii, esmeraldense, melanochrysum and something I got as p.camouflage)
Image
Feb 14, 2021 7:20 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
I personally would leave them
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Avatar for TitoBandito
Feb 14, 2021 8:32 AM CST
Copenhagen
Gina1960 said:I personally would leave them


Thank you. And what should I expect them to turn into? A leaf? I decided to leave them on p.brasil and within a week they unfurled into new leaves - but I've had this Brasil for a long time and can vouch that they are getting as much light as they can this time of the year. I'm not so sure about my new plants, considering that the people I bought them from keep them under grow lights they choose according to voltage.

Also, what is the correct term for these buds?
Image
Feb 14, 2021 12:07 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
In the case of a Pachyneurium like plowmanii, you can;t rule out that it may be a bloom emerging.
I have never had plants like Esmeraldense or Melanochrysum make a cataphyll that did not produce a leaf. but it happens with Amydriums all the time
Award winning beaded art at ceinwin.deviantart.com!
Avatar for TitoBandito
Feb 15, 2021 8:10 AM CST
Copenhagen
Thank you very much. I will be patient then
Only the members of the Members group may reply to this thread.
  • Started by: Gina1960
  • Replies: 18, views: 11,320
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )