I know digging it up is the answer, but after days of backbreaking labor and an old dry laid retaining stone wall that doesn't appreciate me trying to rip out kudzu and wild grape and oak saplings 2x thicker than my thumb growing from the cracks I am clearly going to loose this war of attrition- gotta bring in big guns, but not sure what those might be.

How do I kill these without salting the land? All hand held power tool ideas welcome.. chain saws, sawzalls, drills, .

They're just too big, to established for me to dig out. To be honest, for years I haven't had time to address it properly and would just go out with my clippers and cut them back, but that was a really bad strategy, as they just refuse to die, grow bushier, roots get deeper and stronger and fatter and now I'm really in a bind. I'm also cutting out some giant tuja Along the sidewalk and the roots are just knarly.

You used to be able to get stump remover - which I think was basically just phosphate, I think... and if you cut something down, drilled some holes in what was left and poured it in it would kill the plant and speed the rotting of the wood, but apparently it's a prime ingredient used in making meth or some other nefarious pursuit and no longer available at big box stores. Was stump remover actually just phosphate? I do have access to bulk chemicals through a good friend who works in alloy manufacturing, all above board.. but I'm not sure what I need.

I've also got Ortho poison ivy and tough vine killer.. it actually worked miracles with a patch of poison ivy that grew from a neighbors property through my bushes and branched out like crazy.. I sprayed it Uber careful, making sure to only hit the ivy leaves and it did die back without killing the bush under it.. but it was really like a poison ivy balaclava.. there was almost no bush showing to get hit with the poison, it took 2-3 treatments over the course of a growing season, and I'd like to be able to use this space this year for flowers and veg so I'm trying to avoid plain vanilla poison. Don't get me wrong, I want and need to poison them, but I'd rather use something that's only dangerous in high concentrations, applied smartly, that can be reversed/rebalanced.

I.ve also got muriatic acid in the garage that's kinda calling my name. I'm wondering if I drill out a hole in the stump and fill it with acid, will it kill the root? I'm okay with the chemistry, I can test the surrounding soil and neutralize it later with fireplace ash or lawn lime as needed. I have both the protective equipment needed, including the proper respirator, elbow length gloves, tyvec suit proper footwear and experience using it to etch concrete. If I drill out the stump, add 50-100 ml, think that will do it?

I do want to state the ideas I am suggesting (and asking for) do require extreme care, education and experience.. when I learned how to handle muriatic acid I did it under an engineers supervision and instructions.. that engineer was my father, who built bridges. He poured the Delaware memorial bridge span and was the superintendent on the 1980s Brooklyn bridge rehabilitation - so I'm sure he knew what he was doing and was paying attention to my health and safety during my extensive training.

What about a blow torch? Right now I only have a little hand held propane torch used for copper pipe sweating, but I'm okay with the idea of stripping ALL DRY VEGITATION and trying that, or purchasing a torch that can be connected to my bbq propane cylinder. AGAIN, anyone following this needs to plan properly for safety.. including protective gear, prepare the site appropriately, doing it at the right time of year, and have a RECENTLY tested fire extinguisher that they have actually used at hand.. not "on" hand, but IN hand.

I have the same problem with two....Mucuna sloanii and Thunbergia coccinea. I hate to have to ax them because both are relatively rare (especially the Thunbergia) but they are highly invasive here. I have been trying to eradicate the Thurbergia for over 10 years. If just one small piece is left rooted the whole thing grows back. I have tried to keep it contained on trellis but it doesn't work. It spreads by underground methods and pops up everywhere. Ditto the Mucuna.

I have been thinking about trying the really strong Horticultural vinegar. I have read you can get it in several different strengths.

I've heard that borax is an effective weed killer too. I have a friend who has used it on poison ivy (which is notoriously hard to kill) and it did the trick. It also killed the tree stump it was growing on!

BORAX? How do you use it? I'll try it, we have rampant poison ivy. How does it affect other plants?

Some people who tumble/polish rocks use borax (40 Mule Team) as an ingredient in their "sludges". A warning is often given to people who have never used it but state they may try it. Folks in the rock tumbling forums have learned from experience not to put it on a plant they don't won't to kill...it will definitely kill plants. I'm thinking most of their experiences come from the inadvertent use of the borax sludge as a soil drench. I'm not sure of it's longevity in the soil, though.

I drill holes in the "trunks " and put in stump or brush killer. Surprised to hear it isn't available in New York. I just bought some for my yearly attempts to clear my back yard. I think it is "fairly " safe if used very carefully. And I am very careful. Paula, have you looked for it on Amazon?

DO NOT use borax on the soil!! It's Boron which can be toxic to plants at very low levels. It is a necessary element but at such a low level that is almost never deficient for plant growth. It also doesn't move through the soil so it's there essentially forever.
Instead just get real and use undiluted glyphosate on a small paintbrush on fresh cuts. You can also use trichlopyr the same way. Neither will last long in the soil so you're veggies and flowers are safe. Glyphosate binds almost immediately to soil particles and stays bound and unavailable to plants. It has no action on roots.

Just say NO to Borax!

oh ok thanks!!!!

Garden fish, can you be more specific? There used to be a product called red devil stump remover - or something like that.
NOT killer, remover...
It wasn't a long acting herbicide.. it was basically a garden safe chemical that was only caustic in high concentration and would speed degradation. As it leaked out of the rotting wood slowly it wouldn't poison anything nearby. That's my goal, targeted destruction with minimal Chance for collateral damage.
Polishing rocks is about mechanical abrasive so borax use in polishing rocks is not related to chemistry. It is very basic, I use it to offset my very soft acidic water in my pool, I believe it functions as a buffer, but I can't recall this time of year.

Turbosaurus said:
Polishing rocks is about mechanical abrasive so borax use in polishing rocks is not related to chemistry. It is very basic, I use it to offset my very soft acidic water in my pool, I believe it functions as a buffer, but I can't recall this time of year.

Uh, yeah...rock polishing is a mechanical action. The borax is usually used in the final stage to burnish the rocks, giving them an extra shine.

Paula, I will go out in my carport and check on the brand, name, and chemical composition. Just give me a little time to post back. Promise to get to it soon!

The stump remover you are talking about is potassium nitrate, or saltpeter (same thing.) The reason you can't find it is probably because it can be used to make gunpowder.

If you want to kill the vines, I would use Garlon 4 (or generic equivalent Triclopyr) diluted 3:1 with diesel oil. Cut the vines and,paint the triclopyr on the fresh stumps. They shouldn't come back. That's how we kill buckthorn, which is an invasive tree that massively resprouts if you don't treat the stumps. If you just have a small amount to treat and don't want to buy a gallon of concentrated brush killer, look for a ready-to-apply product called Tordon RTU -- I think you can get it at Tractor Supply. Tordon may kill nearby plants, I don't know; it's a different chemical. I've never had that problem with the Garlon.

Tordon will kill anything but just brush it on the stumps also and you will be ok. We've used it here to kill invasive honeysuckle. Wear gloves and long sleeves when using it.

Something I just remembered; you can use full-strength 41% Round-Up as a brush-on stump killer. It's probably not as effective as triclopyr or picloram, OTOH you probably already have some in your garage or garden shed.

Thanks guys! Those are the big guns... I'm a bit reluctant because I do want to plant these spaces this year. I'll try brushing on the concentrated round up and hope for the best.

Diesel, which is nearly the same as heating fuel oil, is a really bad idea for any where you want to ever grow anything else in this generation. Thats worse than salting the earth.. my dads oil delivery guy once spilled what he claimed was about a gallon or two in my childhood (I'm 43) .. yes, that a lot more than brushing it on, but it completely killed an oak tree 15 ft away, 6 ft in diameter with a crown that provided 1/4 acre of shade within a year. My father freaked out, there was a huge legal battle. They did an expensive clean up, the tree cost $5k to take out, and to this day the grass looks like crap... that was 30 years ago... so no diesel in the garden, ever!

Did you drill holes in the stumps before you brushed on the concentrate?

Turbosaurus said:Did you drill holes in the stumps before you brushed on the concentrate?

No, just apply it lightly to the fresh cut surface. If the stump is really big, you just have to apply it to the outer rings (I think that's called the cambium.) It's a very small amount of oil, but you could use vegetable oil if it makes you feel better