I'll keep this short and sweet. I've got a large garden space where I've experienced everything from algae to horse flies. My goal is to be as organic and natural as possible. Last year I used a diluted vinegar spray to tend to a wide array of insects and powdery mildew, but it didn't work the greatest. This year I purchased "Garden Organics" insecticide and fungicide.
QUESTION: can I mix these two products(garden organics fungicide and insecticide) or would that be overwhelming to the plants? Would it be better to just use diluted vinegar? I've also got a backpack mister (commercial) with a gallon of Wondercide. I'm open to suggestions, I've just tried very hard to not use "non-organic" products so I'd appreciate suggestions of that nature. I haven't found a dish soap I "trust" (although I know most people will add a drop to their mix before spray). I've got 5 pounds of cinnamon and 5 pounds of cayenne pepper because once upon a time I read that they could be combined to both heal plants (freshly trimmed) and deter pests. Any and all suggestions are welcome! I appreciate all the help from this forum

Don't use anything right now and give us more information. It sounds like you are trying to cure symptoms of a larger underlying environmental or structural problem that should be addressed first, one that likely involves water, drainage, sun exposure or airflow. Please provide a description of your growing space, your soil type, what you're trying to grow and how you've gone about it so far. Photos please, if possible.

I couldn't find a product called Garden Organics. Is there a brand attached to that? As for Wondercide, are you trying to control fleas and ticks? It doesn't appear to be a product designed specifically for plant/garden use.

So, provide more information from you, and we'll see what's going on!

Sounds good, I will hold off! I had a massive description ready but figured no one would want to read it considering I'm just asking about (what I thought was) basic stuff... I appreciate it!

Last year I had a small raised bed, this year I decided I'd create a 30' x 120' monstrosity. Long story short, I did a lot wrong and I realized the benefit of raised beds.

The entire space was covered with grass so we bulldozed the area and removed it. I then had a load of "top soil" dumped where the grass was in hopes that it would be better than the clay-heavy ground that was existent. This was done at first for 1/2 the area and I was wrong, and the top soil I received ended up being pretty much was I already had. They then informed me (for the next 10 yards) they had a compost/top soil blend (for a whopping $2/yard difference...) and I obviously got that. One issue I had was planting too many seeds together which eventually germinated and I DIDN'T thin them... I have tomato bushes with 15+ "plants" that are dwarfed but that's another issue (lesson learned). I planted all my "home grown" plants in the first 60' along the barn and anything I bought additionally in the compost blend plot past it (where the plants get more sun). There are different groupings of plants everywhere. One idiotic mistake I made was adding chicken bedding from cleaning my large coop directly on top of the soil in hopes that it would "fix" what had gone wrong. Quite a few tomato plants got burned and not that many are fruitful. Since the start, and especially since the Nitrogen overloading incident, I've been trying to fix the existing ground. I've mulched the entire space with all natural wood shavings that have been mashing with the mud (I finally got enough down to stay). After this season I plan on tilling the entire area with my tractor and mixing in compost that has been sitting on a hot compost pile in preparation for next year. I've got epsom salt (magnesium) for tomatoes and peppers, cinnamon, cayenne pepper, bone meal, and am willing to get anything else that may assist. No I haven't used all those - I just have them in case I do - At one point a tomato plant had discolored leaves and the salt actually helped greatly. For about a week, the space was VERY overwatered... I was on vacation and the timer somehow went off 3 times a day for 45 minutes. There was a long of algae in the irrigation paths BUT only one plant drowned thanks to the mounding and such around others. Long story short, irrigation did suck but I'm pretty sure I've fixed it. The mildew started a while ago on my pumpkins but I thought it had gone away. There were a CRAZY amount of gnats and flies...

Different plant groupings are all over the place -

Summary of area
The first half of the garden, 60', along the barn, POOR top soil, clay underneath, 6-8 hours of sunlight - was the first area to be planted and was all my seedlings that I started early on my own (multiple plants per unit... woops)
Over watered at one point but grew algae because there was enough mulch and the water made a slow stream through the plants to a low point
Lots of gnats and bugs - broccoli, cauliflower, and brussels have been almost entirely eaten - tomatoes and squash (close by) are untouched
Celery is very wilted

The second half of the garden,
60', past the barn, compost blend top soil, clay underneath, 8-12 hours of sunlight - Planted with store bought seedlings - 1 per space
Over watered at one point but has very good drainage and didn't incur any algae
Nothing seems to be particularly "overrun" by bugs but the tomatoes and peppers have some yellowing and discoloration
Got Nitrogen burn
A little mildew and some browning on some of the melons and squash

LucasB95. Kinda took a big bite, eh? I've put my thoughts about the overall situation down below, but I think you're at more of a "farming" level than my "gardening" experience covers, at least when it comes to creating vegetable beds of that size, so I'm going to put out a call to a member who is a farmer and who might be able to steer you in the right direction.

@Porkpal? I see you have a farming badge. I wonder if this is something you can weigh in on, or point Lucas to some resources?

My thoughts: You've already recognized many of your mistakes, so that's a good start. Besides what you've already identified about over-watering, my immediate thought is that the underlying clay soil might not be draining well and you need to load in as much compost and manure as you can, plant a cover crop and leave it alone until next spring. The 60' strip along the barn is barely getting enough direct sun for tomatoes. What direction does it face? It might do well for different crops. A lot depends on your climate. Where are you?

Find a food pantry that can use all those pounds of kitchen seasoning. They're not going to do much for your garden. Get your soil tested and add amendments based on any deficiencies that are indicated. Your local agricultural extension service should be able to help you.

Part of your problems with chewing pests is that the environment is off-kilter. While you're waiting for your beds to settle in, plant native pollinator plants all around the area, as many as you can. If they're natives, they'll still need watering for the first season, but you shouldn't have to amend the soil. Once you attract a thriving population of beneficials, the bad guys will diminish in numbers. Also, intersperse your crops--big groups of the same plant attract big groups of the bugs that eat them.

Another approach would be to forego tilling and go with a more permaculture approach. Have you ever researched hugelkultur? It seems radically different, but it is an alternative to "fighting" the soil. Creating healthy soil takes awhile; ideally, you start on the soil the year before planting.

I don't know what to advise about your current crops. Photos would help, knowing what pests you have would help. It's hard to combat fungus once it takes hold.

I would advise you to READ THE LABLE on the packaging. It should tell you if they can be mixed. If it doesn't ,e-mail or call the company, and ask. If this a legitimate company, there has to be a label with directions for mixing, for what it is used for, etc. Also an MSDS (material safety data sheet) somewhere on line. You don't spray food crops without knowing what you're trying to cure!

My vegetable garden usually turns into a jungle, so I am not a good one to offer advice.

porkpal said:My vegetable garden usually turns into a jungle, so I am not a good one to offer advice.

At least your plants grow. Should I leave anything in my brother's care it would turn into a dead zone in under a week.

To get back to the original topic, yes, many fungicides and insecticides can be mixed but it's always better to prepare a schedule ahead.
For example tomatos and eggplants should be sprayed with copper every fortnight, Garden sage or Dog rose should be planted as a "telltale plant": when it gets the first spots of powdery mildew, it's time to spray all susceptible plants with lime sulfur. And so on.
Generally speaking pests are treated on a strict "if needed" basis: if they present themselves, you kill them. If they don't show up, no need to intervene. That's as easy as that. That's why large commercial operations have all sorts of chromatic and hormone-based traps around them: by monitoring them commercial growers know exactly if and when to treat their crops for pests. Since we only grow relatively small patches and gardens, we can check on our crops regularly without the need for traps.

One final note: home-made remedies cause more troubles to plants than they solve. For example many people use ordinary soap instead of insecticidal (potassium) soap and end up doing nothing about their pest problem and causing their plants problems by spraying in the hottest hours of the days and causing leaf scorch. Neem oil is a particular polemic idol of mine so if you hear me rant and rave about it don't worry: while it has its (limited) uses it's sold as a panacea and people end up spraying it for everything way too often causing, you guessed it, leaf scorch!

I will add to that by saying that the plants/bugs evolve faster than the chemical companies do, and the bugs/weeds become immune to them with over use.

ctcarol said:I will add to that by saying that the plants/bugs evolve faster than the chemical companies do, and the bugs/weeds become immune to them with over use.

I am yet to find a pest that will resist my Indian-produced insecticide. Ops, said too much.

geographic location, please?
we do not mind long descriptions.

I appreciate all the input! This is why I love forums. I'll attach some pics, the brand is "garden safe" - an older farmer neighbor told me this morning that they consider it extremely weak (I have the fungicide(3 in 1) and the "insecticidal soap")

Sorry! LOCATION: Southeast MI, Zone 6a/5b

Photos would be very helpful.

ElPolloDiablo said:


One final note: home-made remedies cause more troubles to plants than they solve. For example many people use ordinary soap instead of insecticidal (potassium) soap and end up doing nothing about their pest problem and causing their plants problems by spraying in the hottest hours of the days and causing leaf scorch. Neem oil is a particular polemic idol of mine so if you hear me rant and rave about it don't worry: while it has its (limited) uses it's sold as a panacea and people end up spraying it for everything way too often causing, you guessed it, leaf scorch!

Amen!
Neem oil can be useful if used appropriately...but it seldom is.
One of my biggest pet peeves; using home made remedies of off-label concoctions because you saw it on the internet on 'Bob's Bodaciously-Bountiful Garden' YouTube channel.
Oh, and for good measure you should double whatever recipe of snake oil mixed with turpentine and vinegar they give you.

Don't get me started.

All that being said - everybody gets to make their own decisions. Just don't ask me to be quiet about it.

LucasB95, It can never be emphasized enough: Don't spray unless you know precisely what you're spraying for, and use a product precisely designed for that particular issue, precisely according to instructions.

Even with that caveat, I'm not comfortable recommending you use any such products at this point, especially if you still have drainage problems. Based on what you described, it's like using paint to fix the cracks in the walls that are caused by a sinking foundation. The "cure" is fixing the foundation -- in your case, the soil.

You said

LucasB95 said: Nothing seems to be particularly "overrun" by bugs but the tomatoes and peppers have some yellowing and discoloration
Got Nitrogen burn
A little mildew and some browning on some of the melons and squash

:

I don't see what you're spraying for. A little mildew isn't a fungal infection; nitrogen burn, yellowing and discoloration aren't cured by insecticides. The algae you mentioned previously was caused by standing water.

"Weak" by your old farmer neighbor's standards doesn't mean benign. If something is chewing, figure out what it is and MAYBE use the insecticidal soap only, AS DIRECTED. Not the 3-in-1.

I know you want to save your plants, but there is an expression, "throwing good money after bad" that might just apply here. Send us photos, and we'll see if there is something else you can do to save some of your crops.