I'm noticing some of these plants have a longer life than previously thought!

Wild Turnip for example I grew and once the seed pods matured it died, same as ornamental kale.
But I've got a Red Cabbage plant going 4 years strong and a 2 year old Brussels Sprouts plant.

Though the plants look unsightly and half dead during Winter, many come to life in Spring and flower like crazy!

Technically they are "short lived perennials",but all cultivated Brassica are effective useless after their growing season is over due to declining yields and increased vulnerability to pests and diseases such as armyworms and Black rot. Plainly put it just makes no economic sense to keep on growing them over several seasons.

ElPolloDiablo said:Technically they are "short lived perennials",but all cultivated Brassica are effective useless after their growing season is over due to declining yields and increased vulnerability to pests and diseases such as armyworms and Black rot. Plainly put it just makes no economic sense to keep on growing them over several seasons.

I disagree, sure you can't eat them; but for the early flowers and seeds are great reasons! They are at no more risk to pests the second year than the first.

Ah, but I respectfully disagree about the edibility or economic aspects that you noted, @ElPolloDiablo .

Several years ago a guy called me about a swarm of bees at his father's house. His father was getting on up in years and had discovered the swarm that morning. The guy gave me his father's phone number and I called the old fellow. He told me the bees were on a collard plant. I thought to myself, ok a low hanging swarm possibly on the ground...shouldn't be much trouble. I showed up to get the bees and the old fella walked me out to the fence at the edge of his yard where he had his collards growing. I was amazed to see about a half-dozen collard plants that stood around six feet tall!!!

The collar plants looked like small trees!!!! The bees were about 3' off the ground!! Never in my life had I see collard plants *that* tall...and healthy looking, too!!! I asked the old fella about them and he said they were three or four years old. He said he'd come out every now and then and pick a mess of leaves to cook and that the plants just kept on growing. For him, on a fixed income and probably not really able to do much gardening these collards were a blessing to him...no expense and nothing but harvesting in regards to labor. That was a "win-win" situation for him!

I got the bees, no problem, but what I remember the most was the size of those collard plants!!!

And it could also be said that most of us do a lot of gardening that technically "makes no economic sense"...

The bees and other pollinators here have certainly been enthusiastic when I've had broccoli "get away" from me and flower!

My father always told me that you can buy it cheaper than you can raise it. I tend to agree...unless, of course, you eat off of your collard plants for five years.<grin>

Collard 'Georgia Creole ' planted spring 2020. Of 6 or 8, three survived and this is the biggest . Maybe I'll let it keep going.. depends.


Five feet at top.
I have loads of mustard, arugula and these collard in bloom but never see pollinators interested. I'm trying to let them go for seed.

If you value your labor at even minimum wage, garden work isn't cheap food. Then theres the processing , washing, cutting etc.. You have to do the work for other Intrinsic value.

Tomatoes, fresh, are a good value compared to store cost and quality.

I have kale in my greenhouse aquaponics system that is 4-5 years old and gets 5 feet tall each winter. It flowers every summer and I cut it back, and then it grows and I harvest it through the winter. (The greenhouse is set to get light freezes inside.) They have never gotten pests, even when other greenhouse plants have.

sallyg said:
If you value your labor at even minimum wage, garden work isn't cheap food. Then theres the processing , washing, cutting etc.. You have to do the work for other Intrinsic value.

Tomatoes, fresh, are a good value compared to store cost and quality.

I have to slightly disagree. First, I did the math on some of my more expensive veggies last year. Water (which is actually really expensive here, so something to consider!), potting soil to start, soil amendment in the garden, and the seed topped out at $.60 per plant. This compared to $3-8 per at the store. These are my cauliflower, broccoli, and romanesco, which also tend to be expensive at the store around my parts.

Yes, once you consider my labor in starting the seeds, planting the seedlings, and then watering and weeding the plants, that's maybe not a great deal, but growing these things is my hobby, and I hardly consider it work. I don't get overtime from my paid work, so spending my free time puttering around the garden is a healthy and enjoyable way to spend my free time. If I could make money in my free time, then maybe the comparison to paid work would make sense, but I just don't find that a reasonable comparison in my circumstances.

If I get even 10 artichokes out of my try at them this summer, I will have saved a mint, since they run $4 per here! As you note, tomatoes are a great value. Sweet peppers, too (another very expensive thing here...a red bell runs anywhere from $1-4 EACH). I think I also get great value from my black raspberries, which require little maintenance but are hard to pick (thorns), and cost $3-5/pint at the store (I get two to three pints *a day* at peak production).

But at the end of the day, I'm having fun growing all this stuff, and it's really nice that when I want a tomato slice on a burger in July, all the "planning" I have to do is...walking 30 feet out my back door.

sallyg said:Collard 'Georgia Creole ' planted spring 2020. Of 6 or 8, three survived and this is the biggest . Maybe I'll let it keep going.. depends.


Five feet at top.
I have loads of mustard, arugula and these collard in bloom but never see pollinators interested. I'm trying to let them go for seed.

If you value your labor at even minimum wage, garden work isn't cheap food. Then theres the processing , washing, cutting etc.. You have to do the work for other Intrinsic value.

Tomatoes, fresh, are a good value compared to store cost and quality.

Well said. It's mighty good but it ain't cheap! I agree on the tomatoes...and other things, too. What you can get out of your own garden *can* be much higher quality.

Those upper leaves look like they would be good...the lower leaves maybe not so much. Pollinators can be fickle...I know that honey bees will fly right over something you would think prime grazing for them to get to something else that seems much less desirable, but they know what they're doing. I imagine other pollinators have their preferences, too. My vitex bushes drawn all kinds of bumble bees and small native bees and wasps...but seldom do I see a honey bee on them.

dachiri said:

I have to slightly disagree. First, I did the math on some of my more expensive veggies last year. Water (which is actually really expensive here, so something to consider!), potting soil to start, soil amendment in the garden, and the seed topped out at $.60 per plant. This compared to $3-8 per at the store. These are my cauliflower, broccoli, and romanesco, which also tend to be expensive at the store around my parts.

Yes, once you consider my labor in starting the seeds, planting the seedlings, and then watering and weeding the plants, that's maybe not a great deal, but growing these things is my hobby, and I hardly consider it work. I don't get overtime from my paid work, so spending my free time puttering around the garden is a healthy and enjoyable way to spend my free time. If I could make money in my free time, then maybe the comparison to paid work would make sense, but I just don't find that a reasonable comparison in my circumstances.

If I get even 10 artichokes out of my try at them this summer, I will have saved a mint, since they run $4 per here! As you note, tomatoes are a great value. Sweet peppers, too (another very expensive thing here...a red bell runs anywhere from $1-4 EACH). I think I also get great value from my black raspberries, which require little maintenance but are hard to pick (thorns), and cost $3-5/pint at the store (I get two to three pints *a day* at peak production).

But at the end of the day, I'm having fun growing all this stuff, and it's really nice that when I want a tomato slice on a burger in July, all the "planning" I have to do is...walking 30 feet out my back door.

Excellent post!

Dachiri, there isn't much to compare with being able to go "shopping" in your own garden... it's priceless!

Weedwhacker said:Dachiri, there isn't much to compare with being able to go "shopping" in your own garden... it's priceless!

I live on a very unique block. I'm in the midst of the "big city" of DC (back when I went to an office, I worked a block from the White House and made the commute by electric bike in 25 minutes!), but have almost 2000 square feet of outdoor space since my lot is large (for the city) and house is "normal" (600 square foot footprint, but over 3 floors means I have almost 1600 square feet of indoor living space).

So, with that, I have a nice garden AND entertaining space outdoors, and, you're absolutely right..."shopping" in the garden is so nice. When I have people over, I often ask them what they want as a side from the garden before picking and cooking/preparing it. Corn? Zucchini? A tomato basil salad? Fresh green beans? Go see what looks best to you out there, and I'll whip it right up! Right now it's spinach, kale, and lettuce, with beets soon and the brassicas hot on their heels (turnips already out after a good 3-week run). I do one of those veggie boxes (Hungry Harvest...highly recommend if they're in your market) to fill in during the shoulder seasons, but I've cancelled more than gotten them in the last month-ish. ;)

That sounds like an awesome place for someone living in DC - and even more awesome is that you are taking full advantage of it!

Intheswamp said:Ah, but I respectfully disagree about the edibility or economic aspects that you noted, @ElPolloDiablo .

Roman cauliflowers are €4.90/5.90-kg here. 50 seeds (top quality) are €3.50 and each can grow into something like this.



Sure, you can buy cheaper seeds but germination rates for Brassica sp. is like day and night between quality and cheap seeds. Homemade compost allows me not just to start fertilizing the beds but to save money on taxes as well: I won't bother you on how city taxes are structured here.
Then there are the fertilizers, but I buy big farm formats which save me big money on a per weight basis (25kg of Nitrophoska Gold are less than €40; the standard 4kg bag of NPK fertilizer for homeowners ranges between €10 and 20 according to brand and the robber selling it).
If I had more room and better land/weather I'd be growing much more stuff and save even more money.

I reckon the only thing it would not economically feasible to grow are watermelons, and that's just because prices have been going down for a few years now here.

dashiri
I don't think you're disagreeing actually. That's what I called intrinsic values (maybe used the word wrong?) - the mental and physical benefits of keeping the garden.

I have no idea how my labor time would work out factored into my crops, working the garden. You just can't add up the ten minutes here and there on certain tasks..

El Pollo, absolutely, comparing seed put down to edible picked can be amazing. That's a beautiful thing you've got there! Last year I planted three Rattlesnake pole beans and picked an incredible amount. Yes, tiny Brassica seeds can yield a huge amount.

If I liked peeling, blanching, cutting, canning as much as I like outside tasks, I'd be set. . but I don't so I'd have to pay myself too much right now for that.

Apologies for straying from the topic.

Yes, my collard plant did make new fresh good looking leaves this spring. And it is adding side shoots. I don't know what it'll do later, or what I'll do to it. But it is the best of 6 or 8 I started last spring- most died, two others are OK but not this big. So Keith, I think brassicas are not reliably hardy for us, but if one is now and then.. more power to you.

Intheswamp said:Ah, but I respectfully disagree about the edibility or economic aspects that you noted, @ElPolloDiablo .

Several years ago a guy called me about a swarm of bees at his father's house. His father was getting on up in years and had discovered the swarm that morning. The guy gave me his father's phone number and I called the old fellow. He told me the bees were on a collard plant. I thought to myself, ok a low hanging swarm possibly on the ground...shouldn't be much trouble. I showed up to get the bees and the old fella walked me out to the fence at the edge of his yard where he had his collards growing. I was amazed to see about a half-dozen collard plants that stood around six feet tall!!!

The collar plants looked like small trees!!!! The bees were about 3' off the ground!! Never in my life had I see collard plants *that* tall...and healthy looking, too!!! I asked the old fella about them and he said they were three or four years old. He said he'd come out every now and then and pick a mess of leaves to cook and that the plants just kept on growing. For him, on a fixed income and probably not really able to do much gardening these collards were a blessing to him...no expense and nothing but harvesting in regards to labor. That was a "win-win" situation for him!

I got the bees, no problem, but what I remember the most was the size of those collard plants!!!

Thought I had posted on this issue but guess I forgot to hit send.
First El Polo was only stated that trying to use use Brassica plants as perennials ( try to harvest multiple years from the same plant was difficult and expensive.
Secondly there are perennial vegetables Chard is a perennial beet. What Ed is describing is a perennial brassica called a walking cabbage in Europe, Tree Collard in the US. https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogco...).
Best grown from cuttings But I have seen seed for sale
https://blog.gardeningknowhow....

Since we're specifically talking about brassicas, I will chime in that the biggest "bang" IMO is broccoli. I grow an aspabroc broccolini variety, and it has two big benefits: it's insanely cold hardy (survived temps in the high teens F without cover this year), and it will keep sending up side shoots until it bolts from heat (or I suppose dies of old age, but I haven't had that happen, yet). In the fall, I plant them and keep harvesting off them until late winter/early spring (early March, which is technically meteorological spring in my parts, even though astronomical spring doesn't start until late March), when I replace them with new plants and start the cycle anew from April into May.

That's a beautiful romanesco, ElPollo! I grow them, too, because they are very tasty and very expensive at stores here!

^Why broccolini? A couple reasons, which I lucked into by chance of the first. Broccolini has more tender stems, so you get a little bit more that's edible from the outset (without peeling off the tough outer stem or reserving for stock), which is why I decided on the variety in the first place. Once I got them in, I discovered two other benefits. First, the plants are a bit smaller than you might expect from a brassica. I can plant seven in the same row length as 4 cauliflower or romanesco. Second, they're a little faster to produce. 6-8 weeks in the ground if planted as 4-6 week old seedlings (the weather determines production time more than the age of the seedling), versus 10-12 weeks for the cauli and romanesco. Maybe that's just broccoli in general, but this variety does extremely well for me in production, speed, and space, so I'mma stick with it!