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Avatar for Channelz28
Aug 1, 2021 6:15 PM CST
Thread OP
Sacramento Valley (Zone 9b)
I recently moved and have very strange soil in my new backyard that doesn't seem to retain any moisture. I soak it every morning to the point of puddling and by the midafternoon it's dry as a bone. I've never experienced it before.

I live in the Sacramento Valley and it's hot and sunny every day, but I've lived here for a long time and gardened/farmed for many years and never run into wilt like this. I have never used mulch, nor have I ever seen any farm or market garden use it.

One of these boxes is just the native soil, the other is heavily amended with lots of compost. Exact same result. As soon as the sun hits, my plants look like this. The cucurbits are by far the worst off. As soon as they go back in the shade, they go back to normal. I'm used to a little wilt here and there, tomato leaves curling, etc. But nothing like this. What's going on? In the past I have usually watered 2-3 times a week, even in the peak summer heat. Now, every day isn't even close to enough.

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Aug 1, 2021 9:46 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
It sounds to me as though the soil has become so dry that any water just stays on top and evaporates or runs off. I don't know what the remedy for that is - hopefully someone else here does!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
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Aug 2, 2021 3:02 AM CST

Try running a test. Put a thin layer of pebbles or gravel at the bottom of a clear container. An old drinking glass or a clear plastic disposable one will do just fine. Put on top of it a handful of soil dug from your garden, gently press it and then pour a glass of water on it.
If your soil has become hydrophobic you should see the water stay on top and percolate in the bottom layer only very very slowly. On the other side if your soil is too permeable it will go straight to the bottom in a matter of seconds.
This will give us something to work on.

Another thing you may want to check is water table levels in your area: it's likely your County has publicly available records for it. A steadily dropping water table is very bad news for any kind of soil and, unfortunately, it's happening in too many places.
The Saviour.
Last edited by ElPolloDiablo Aug 2, 2021 3:04 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for Channelz28
Aug 2, 2021 2:11 PM CST
Thread OP
Sacramento Valley (Zone 9b)
Thanks, I tried it. I don't have any rocks or gravel, so I used woodchips. I poured water in and not much happened. After about 5 minutes the dirt became mostly saturated, but nothing dripped through to the chips. There was still a lot of water sitting on top. This picture is after waiting 5 minutes. Was that enough time? I assume this means hydrophobic.

The water table varies quite a bit where is live, 50-150ft. There is no exact measurement close to me though.

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Aug 2, 2021 2:33 PM CST

Definetely hydrophobic soil, given your location most likely a combination of decades of droughts, heat waves and poor watering practices.

The best solution for a vegetable patch is to use surfactants, aka wetting agents. There are many types available and by the looks of it you need a "penetrant", meaning a surfactant that will help the water penetrate into the soil.
Penterra should be easy to find and relatively cheap: it used to come in 2.5, 5 and 55 gallon formats. It needs to be applied every 2-4 weeks during the Summer to see results.

Alternatively the soil need to be broken and worked with a lot of manure or home-made compost. A motorized tiller would help a lot, as long as it's not one of those small toys big box stores sell or the usual Chicom junk. Something like this: https://orecamerica.com/produc...
Failing that a lot of sweat will do just fine. Hilarious!
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Aug 2, 2021 6:35 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Otherwise - you might want to consider container gardening. Your situation sounds very frustrating, I hope you can find a solution!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Avatar for Channelz28
Aug 2, 2021 9:25 PM CST
Thread OP
Sacramento Valley (Zone 9b)
Thanks for all the advices. I did a search for Penterra, my local garden centers don't have it, 40 bucks on Amazon seems kinda pricey. Doing some googling I find people using Agar Agar and other various things as wetting agents. I happen to have Agar around the house, ever try using it? I think I'll give it a shot first and see how it goes.

Otherwise, yes I will be putting quite a bit of sweat into the ground during the rainy season once things soften up.
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Aug 2, 2021 11:48 PM CST

Channelz28 said:Thanks for all the advices. I did a search for Penterra, my local garden centers don't have it, 40 bucks on Amazon seems kinda pricey. Doing some googling I find people using Agar Agar and other various things as wetting agents. I happen to have Agar around the house, ever try using it? I think I'll give it a shot first and see how it goes.

Otherwise, yes I will be putting quite a bit of sweat into the ground during the rainy season once things soften up.


Agar, aloe and other similar wetting agents will help the soil retain moisture, which is not your problem right now: they are used in highly permeable soils to avoid water draining too fast, often in conjunction with other cultivation tecniques.
What you need if a way for water to get into the ground and stay there.

If you don't want to spend much money and don't break your back too much look up "zai pits": they were developed in the 80's in Africa to work similar soils. They are a very interesting tecnique which, with some variations, can be employed in most soils.
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Aug 3, 2021 6:49 AM CST
Name: Kristi
east Texas pineywoods (Zone 8a)
Herbs Region: Texas Vegetable Grower Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 2
I found some very interesting links on the Zai Pits. Thank you for that suggestion. There is a lot of information there.

It appears that @Channelz28 already has raised beds. I wonder if an easy solution would be to enhance the depth and quality of soil in those raised beds providing a better soil for growth.
Believe in yourself even when no one else will. ~ Sasquatch
Last edited by pod Aug 3, 2021 7:26 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for Channelz28
Aug 3, 2021 11:25 AM CST
Thread OP
Sacramento Valley (Zone 9b)
Cool, thanks! Looks like an option worth trying.

I don't really have raised beds, more like borders with some chicken wire just to keep out a rambunctious puppy that lives here. I do plan to buy some soil, I'm hoping for some end of season sales in the fall.
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