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Nov 29, 2021 9:45 AM CST
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Well everyone seems to be propagating Aeonium Mardi gras. But apparently theres a patent, so you're not allowed to?

Can anyone shed some light on this topic?
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Nov 29, 2021 11:09 AM CST
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Name: Baja
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Yes, you're supposed to go out and buy another plant if you want a second one.

Search on this page to find out whether a plant is patented or not.

https://patents.google.com
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Nov 29, 2021 11:17 AM CST
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Huh, funny I got cuttings from a trade...uh oh.

Hopefully I will get some flowers, and seeds, because that's allowed.
Last edited by Aeonium2003 Nov 29, 2021 11:18 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 29, 2021 12:12 PM CST
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Well it seems there are patents on a lot of these Aeoniums. Makes me think about getting a patent myself.

Personally I don't think it's right that nurseries should use patents on plants just to make more money.

Theres even a patent on 'emerald ice'. But, really, does Altman Plants have to get an patent on everything that they have?

Confused Sighing!
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Nov 29, 2021 1:48 PM CST
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Name: Baja
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The patents are there to provide income to breeders and growers who put a lot of time and effort into coming up with new plants. If you wanted to earn an income from this kind of work, you'd probably feel differently about this. It's not just ka-ching for the nursery, it's vital support for valuable people. Not that I really like the rules, and it's totally fair to complain about the restrictions they mean to impose, but pause for a moment to consider the creativity and persistence that gave rise to some of the hybrids and cultivars we most prize.

At the moment, or at least until recently, Altman employs two breeders who have done great things. Renee O'Connell with Echeverias, Kelly Griffin with aloes (and of course other plants). Of course they want to extract income from this work, and of course they are a business so they seek to maximize that income. But these people are special.

That said, I don't think the patent police are all that interested in what you do in the privacy of your own back yard, so much as what the nurseries who mass produce plants are doing. They'll show up unannounced at a nursery and if someone is found to be in violation, they will provide a strong incentive to be more careful in the future. They're not going to be knocking on your door any time soon. Smiling
Last edited by Baja_Costero Nov 29, 2021 1:49 PM Icon for preview
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Nov 29, 2021 1:53 PM CST
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I always wondered how they enforced the plant patents...
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Nov 29, 2021 2:00 PM CST
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Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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That's pretty much the process, according to someone I know who was on the receiving end of an inspection. I would imagine (putting on my pretend patent police hat) the most effective use of limited enforcement resources would be to target the biggest violators first, especially the people who are earning cash $ from the sale of these plants.
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Nov 30, 2021 2:39 AM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
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Just want to understand further on this strange patent thingy...
Asume I create a new Hybrid of Aeonium by cross breed the Aeonium A with Aeonium B, then I got a new hybrid that I name it Aeonium Monalisa and apply for patent. Assume I get a patent out of it.

Does it mean that from now onwards, nobody allowed to cross breed Aeonium A with Aeonium B and sell them? and they also can not buy my Monalisa and make a stem cuttings out of it and sell it later ? Thinking
If they look healthy, do nothing
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Nov 30, 2021 9:11 AM CST
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Name: Baja
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Anybody who wants to can breed A x B again (assuming those plants are in the public domain).
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Nov 30, 2021 9:21 AM CST
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I have a question:
Let's say Aeonium C is patented but Aeonium D is not.
Can I cross Aeonium C and Aeonium D and have Aeonium E (The cross) patented? Just wondering
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Nov 30, 2021 9:23 AM CST
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No, the patent also covers seedling offspring.
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Nov 30, 2021 9:42 AM CST
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Baja_Costero said:No, the patent also covers seedling offspring.


But wouldn't the offspring have different genetics from the Patented parent? From what I read if the genetics are different, it is no longer under the patent. Like if the plant flowers, and produces seeds, the seedlings would be genetically different. Therefore, that would be allowed. Asexual reproduction, like cuttings would be under the patent, because the genetics are the same, and you are therefore making more of the patented plant.





"However, you could actually make more by encouraging sexual reproduction – i.e. pollination.

See, when plant A and plant B reproduce sexually, they don't make another plant A or plant B. They make plant C.

That's a big deal in the horticulture world too! Every single gala apple you've ever eaten has been from the "same" tree. That original gala tree has provided branches that were grafted onto other apple trees – and that gala branch makes gala apples. If you ever planted a seed from a gala apple it would grow into something similar, but different than a gala because it was pollinated with a non-gala apple flower.

That's all confusing, but the long and short is that pollinating produces a totally new plant (that you could patent if you wanted!)." - Patrick Grubbs, sublime succulents.

https://www.sublimesucculents....

Thinking
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Nov 30, 2021 9:42 AM CST
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Adeniums Cactus and Succulents Composter Container Gardener Fruit Growers Keeper of Koi
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Enjoys or suffers hot summers
If that is the case, still taking my previous example, then nobody allow to use my monalisa as a parent?
If they look healthy, do nothing
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Nov 30, 2021 9:42 AM CST
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Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Patents cover seedling offspring of patented plants. It doesn't matter if those seedlings are different from the patented parent.
Last edited by Baja_Costero Nov 30, 2021 9:43 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 30, 2021 9:45 AM CST
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did you see my above message?

Thats just from what I read. I am going to do more research on this.
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Nov 30, 2021 9:46 AM CST
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Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Sorry, those are the facts. You can't use patented plants for breeding.
Last edited by Baja_Costero Nov 30, 2021 9:48 AM Icon for preview
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Nov 30, 2021 9:49 AM CST
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Ok, I just did more research. Baja_Costero, you are correct. Apparently theres a lot of misinformation going around...
Seedling and sexual reproduction of a patented plant is also a violation of the patent.

"It is a violation of a plant patent if you propagate the plant in any asexual way. That includes rooting cuttings from a patented plant, but it also includes planting the "daughters" of a patented strawberry mother plant in your garden. Seeds can also be protected by patents. The Plant Variety Protection Act of 1970 allows patent protection for unique seed varieties that have not been sold in the country for more than a year."
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Nov 30, 2021 9:54 AM CST
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Apparently theres more than one type of patent you can get on plants.

A plant patent, and a utility patent

Utility patented plant can't be used in breeding
A plant patent, only prohibits vegetative propagation

Thinking Thinking Thinking Thinking
https://www.johnnyseeds.com/on...
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Nov 30, 2021 10:47 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
Okay, I stand corrected. Obviously I am no kind of expert on this subject, so I appreciate the learning opportunity. This would be the bottom line: seedling offspring are apparently not covered by a regular plant patent, unless they are really similar to the parent, in which case they could still try to come after you for infringement.
Last edited by Baja_Costero Nov 30, 2021 1:43 PM Icon for preview
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