Post a reply

Image
Sep 7, 2022 12:42 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Dan
East-central Iowa (Zone 5a)
Hummingbirder Region: Iowa Salvias
I planted a new tree back in early June. The new early to mid season growth was fine and the tree stabilized with that growth, as one would expect. Then, however, around mid summer, the tree started throwing out a bunch of dense growth from the ends of branches. That new growth also quickly began to go crappy. I don't know what could have caused this. The tree has received sufficient water. Maybe it doesn't like the soil? It's planted in the same hole as the old tree that was dug out. I removed much of the old wood, but there is some old wood dust in the soil and small amounts of little chunks, although the soil looked pretty good to me. I added some top soil and compost to the area. Anyway, this dense, crappy growth at the branch tips has me concerned. Even if next year's growth is healthy, I don't think it's good to have a ton of stems growing out of the ends of branches like this. Any ideas what may be causing this?

Here is the good foliage in the core of the tree.
Thumb of 2022-09-07/hawkeyewx/521265

Here's the bad growth.
Thumb of 2022-09-07/hawkeyewx/fdd77f

Thumb of 2022-09-07/hawkeyewx/d19af9
Image
Sep 7, 2022 1:17 PM CST
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
What type of tree did you plant? Looks like a Silver Maple maybe.

What killed the first tree?
If it were me, I would not have planted anything in the old hole. If it was a disease or another problem leading to its death, that issue is still in the soil. It could kill this tree as well.

It is just a belief of mine that I never plant trees in the summer. I plant in early spring or in mid fall.
Yours could be suffering from too much heat and improper watering. But if that's the case, these problems should clear once it is fully established.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Sep 7, 2022 1:18 PM Icon for preview
Image
Sep 7, 2022 3:07 PM CST
Name: Zoë
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
Bee Lover Salvias Region: New Mexico Herbs Container Gardener Composter
Cat Lover Butterflies Bookworm Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
Is it planted in a lawn? Have you used an herbicide (like WeednFeed) on the grass? Have you or neighbors sprayed anything for weeds? It looks like something changed quickly.

Did you fertilize sometime before the new growth appeared? Since you've only had the tree since June and the new growth appeared midsummer, I'd also be looking at what you put in the planting hole. . . Excess fertilizer or conversely, bad soil.
Avatar for CalPolygardener
Sep 7, 2022 3:18 PM CST
California (Zone 9b)
You or one of your neighbors used something containing 2,4-D. It's a broadleaf (not grass) weedkiller that volatilizes easily and causes growth like that. It won't kill your tree, it will just look funny. It's a type of hormone imitator that causes extra-fast growth that collapses due to insufficient lignin production. On soft weeds it works real well. On trees it just looks like what you have. You can leave it or remove it, your choice.
Image
Sep 9, 2022 9:41 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Dan
East-central Iowa (Zone 5a)
Hummingbirder Region: Iowa Salvias
Thanks for the input. The tree is an amur maple "flame". The old tree was also an amur maple. It was 40+ years old and rotting to death. A severe storm finished it off two years ago. Other than the eventual rotting, there was never anything wrong with the tree. I chopped out the old stump and roots by hand (not recommended). The location is a garden bed next to the patio. It's the perfect location for a tree so there was never any thought about planting somewhere in the lawn. No herbicides are used in my yard. One of my neighbors does use a lawn service that puts down weed killer, but I've never seen any issue on any other plant or tree.
Image
Sep 10, 2022 5:14 AM CST
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
All I can say is that I think it was unwise to plant the same tree type back into the same hole where the previous diseased tree lived. You will just pass the same disease on to a new tree. There is no way that the disease has been removed, those roots spread out far and wide.
Trees normally live longer then 40 years, unless we are talking about fruit trees or perhaps ornamental cherries, things of that nature.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Image
Sep 10, 2022 9:52 AM CST
Name: Zoë
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
Bee Lover Salvias Region: New Mexico Herbs Container Gardener Composter
Cat Lover Butterflies Bookworm Birds Enjoys or suffers hot summers
You might have more than one issue happening and I don't suggest entirely ruling them out, however I'm suspicious about the symptoms showing only at the growth tips. Most disease or insect damage would be more evenly distributed over the whole tree.

New growth on certain trees and shrubs — including maples — is particularly sensitive to herbicide drift. The fact that only new growth is affected on your tree points in that direction. Most people don't realize how far herbicides can drift in light breeze. Your neighbor's lawn service could have changed products, sprayed on a hot day or carelessly applied it in windy weather.

You didn't tell us when or how you fertilized, but rapid growth from recent, possibly excessive, fertilization would have been especially susceptible to herbicide damage. If you had a severe heatwave before the tree's roots were fully established, that would also make it more susceptible to damaging external forces.

If the remaining foliage appears unaffected, hopefully the tree will be fine next season. Keep it well watered. Here are some articles for you:

https://www.missouribotanicalg...

https://www.aces.edu/blog/topi...

https://extension.umd.edu/reso...
Image
Sep 10, 2022 9:56 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Dan
East-central Iowa (Zone 5a)
Hummingbirder Region: Iowa Salvias
BigBill said: All I can say is that I think it was unwise to plant the same tree type back into the same hole where the previous diseased tree lived. You will just pass the same disease on to a new tree. There is no way that the disease has been removed, those roots spread out far and wide.
Trees normally live longer then 40 years, unless we are talking about fruit trees or perhaps ornamental cherries, things of that nature.


I understand. However, this particular location, between the patio and garage, really does need a tree for looks and to provide afternoon/evening shade for the patio and, eventually, the back of the house. The area has really looked bare for the last two years, and the back of the house gets very hot without shade. Even having a new, tiny tree makes a big difference for the look of the area. A locally nursery guy, the son of the guy who planted our original amur maple tree in the 1970s, said the amur maple tends to have issues like ours had and be a shorter-lived tree. Even with the issues, we liked our old tree. We considered other small trees, but decided to try another amur maple. If it doesn't work, it's not the end of the world.

NMoasis said: You didn't tell us when or how you fertilized, but rapid growth from recent, possibly excessive, fertilization would have been especially susceptible to herbicide damage. If you had a severe heatwave before the tree's roots were fully established, that would also make it more susceptible to damaging external forces.


I did not add any fertilizer to the tree hole. There has been no severe heat this summer. Regarding watering, I watered every day for a week, then gradually increased the time between watering. I'm still deeply watering once a week during the very dry stretch we've been in for the last month.

Once again, I appreciate the replies. I'll just have to see how the tree grows next year.
Last edited by hawkeyewx Sep 10, 2022 10:01 PM Icon for preview
Image
Sep 11, 2022 1:36 PM CST
(Zone 8a)
Japanese Maples Salvias Roses Irises Hummingbirder Foliage Fan
Ferns Dragonflies Dog Lover Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
BigBill said: What type of tree did you plant? Looks like a Silver Maple maybe.

What killed the first tree?
If it were me, I would not have planted anything in the old hole. If it was a disease or another problem leading to its death, that issue is still in the soil. It could kill this tree as well.

It is just a belief of mine that I never plant trees in the summer. I plant in early spring or in mid fall.
Yours could be suffering from too much heat and improper watering. But if that's the case, these problems should clear once it is fully established.


I agree I would not have planted in the same soil, or at least I would not have planted another tree in that spot without getting the soil analysed, and I would have taken out every bit of old roots, etc., left in the hole, but I understand your reasoning for doing so, OP.

If I were you OP, I would keep caring for it and see how it does next Spring. I would also still get the soil in that area tested just to know what is there. I hope you remember to come back next year and let us know how things turned out. I am sure we could all benefit by what you find out as time passes. Good luck.
Last edited by Elysianne Sep 11, 2022 1:43 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for porkpal
Sep 11, 2022 3:07 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
I think that the two year absence of the previous tree would tend to render any earlier pathogens harmless. Keep us posted on its progress.
Image
Sep 15, 2022 12:15 AM CST
(Zone 8a)
Japanese Maples Salvias Roses Irises Hummingbirder Foliage Fan
Ferns Dragonflies Dog Lover Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
^^^ This is a very interesting point, porkpal. Do pathogens totally die out after X amount of time? I find this fascinating if you place it in the context of ancient archeological sites for example. They still wear masks and use other protective gear digging out ancient burial sites in Egypt for fear of pathogens still active in those sites. Is that realistic?? If pathogens really die out after a certain amount of time, say 2 years in this particular case, why would anyone need worry about a site that is literally well over 2000 years old? How long can pathogens survive? Just wondering......
Last edited by Elysianne Sep 15, 2022 12:21 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for CalPolygardener
Sep 15, 2022 7:05 AM CST
California (Zone 9b)
It depends on the pathogen and the host. Rhizoctonia can last for decades in a dormant state. The most damaging one I can think of is Verticllium, which does last for decades. If that was the cause of the tree's demise, another Maple may not have been the best choice.
Image
Sep 15, 2022 8:11 PM CST
(Zone 8a)
Japanese Maples Salvias Roses Irises Hummingbirder Foliage Fan
Ferns Dragonflies Dog Lover Butterflies Birds Bee Lover
^^^ That is really amazing.... I recall screening a programme some years ago where they conducted an experiment to see what could survive unaided in some sort of container left in some sort of cabin through the Winter. They did this at the north pole (I think?) where they did not think anything could survive the freezing Winter. They returned months later to check, and sure enough, whatever it was they left in the container was still alive. It is a bit creepy really..... (LOL)
Image
Jun 9, 2023 7:58 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Dan
East-central Iowa (Zone 5a)
Hummingbirder Region: Iowa Salvias
I have an update on my new amur maple tree.

Most of the crappy growth tips shown in the above photo died late last year, obviously not ideal. In response, this spring, the tree put out a lot of dense growth toward the ends of its branches. The growth was healthy, but there were too many closely-spaced side branches, so I thinned it out. The central leader tip died, so I created a new one out of one of the new top side branches. Once fully leafed out and thinned out, the tree actually looked pretty good. Last year, its first year, the tree did not produce any samaras, but this year it has. I was feeling good about the tree, thinking it was on a good path forward, but.... last year's problem has suddenly returned... the exact same issue. A couple weeks ago I noticed a few of the tips were wilting and dying, and some of the leaves near the tips were browning and shriveling up. I thought maybe I had failed to keep the tree watered well enough during May's dry weather. I've been watering it well since then, but the issue is growing. Most of the tips are still alive and fresh, but last year is repeating. Dense, weird-looking growth is emerging from the last several inches of many of the branches. I'm expecting many of the tips will die again. Meanwhile, the tree's core foliage looks great. I will likely give the tree one more year, but it's difficult to feel any optimism at this point. Sighing!
Avatar for hawkeye_daddy
Jun 9, 2023 9:10 AM CST
SE Iowa
Sorry you are having this issue! My first thought was witches broom from insects. Can't really tell from the pics if the new growth is any smaller, but it certainly seems more dense. I don't pretend to be a tree expert, and there are various things that can trigger witches broom in trees besides insects. Whatever the cause, the tree's defenses react to it, and PERMANENTLY change its growth habit. Or so I've been told. Other things to consider are salt damage, and iron chlorosis. Too MUCH water is generally the cause of iron chlorosis. Extension isn't much help in our Hawkeye State these days, but you can get a form online and send a soil sample to Minnesota. That's what I would do. Don't guess; soil test. I was having weird issues in one of my landscape beds, and it turned out to be an off-the-chart level of phosphorus in the soil. They gave me a recommendation as to what to do about it, and it was the last thing I would have thought of on my own. If it turns out that the damage is irreversible, you could plant a nice serviceberry in that spot. You'd get flowers and good fall color from that. But I'd sure test the soil before I invested any more money in a replacement!
Avatar for porkpal
Jun 9, 2023 9:11 AM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
How disappointing! If you cut off the dead tips, does more of the branch continue to die? What happens next if you remove the parts of the branches with the weird growth?

This is a puzzle. Keep us posted.
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )

Today's site banner is by Lucius93 and is called "Pollination"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.