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Feb 16, 2023 12:13 PM CST
Thread OP
(Zone 7b)
Good Morning All, I have a flurry of what I assume are basic questions, but I have not yet found a resource that answers them specific to trees.

I am currently growing some young trees that I found as (what I thought were) weeds popping out of my lawn. They are now 2Y old and have been growing in relatively small pots. I have two white mulberry, four maples and two black willows.

- Does anyone have advice for what size container these trees should be planted in to allow for sustained growth? (current pics attached - yes, the foldgers one is ridiculous)

- If they have been in the same soil since initial transplant, I imagine the nutrients are now or soon will be depleted. How often must soil be changed for container trees?

- Do trees "need" to be pruned to grow well in containers? The goal will be to transplant these into the ground in 3-5 years and I don't know how continuous branching does/does not impact overall strength and growth rate.

- Lastly, one of the black willows has an interesting habit of growing new trunks every year, with the old ones dying. I snapped a photo of the trunk base so you can see all of the offshoots. I assume this isn't normal - any idea why they keep cycling like this? The roots are clearly strong enough to keep pushing up new trunks each year.

Thank you in advance!

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Feb 16, 2023 12:28 PM CST
Name: James
North Louisiana (Zone 8b)
Adeniums Cactus and Succulents Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Growing under artificial light Ferns Garden Photography
Region: Louisiana Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Critters Allowed Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Container Gardener
what are your future plans for these "potted trees" ?

are those plans to keep them in pots ...or are they soon to be planted in your yard ??
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Feb 16, 2023 12:31 PM CST
Thread OP
(Zone 7b)
Right now, I live in an apartment with limited outdoor splace, but in the next 3-5 years I plan on transitioning to a place with some acreage. I'd like to eventually plant them in the ground.
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Feb 16, 2023 1:24 PM CST
Name: James
North Louisiana (Zone 8b)
Adeniums Cactus and Succulents Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Growing under artificial light Ferns Garden Photography
Region: Louisiana Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Critters Allowed Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Container Gardener
have some experience with pecan trees ....

to accommodate the root system, repot in taller pots -
make certain there are ample drainage holes -
they will need watering often during the hottest time of year

for potting mix - dont use bagged potting mix (too much peat moss - that holds too much water) - instead, go to a local plant nursery that also have trees in stock .... if you look at the nurseries potted trees, you might notice composted chunks of wood, bark & sand ....
ask if they have any of that mix for sale - or where you can get some .... (many might deliver a truck load full load)
also, while at local plant nursery ....many will give away used plastic pots, suitable for trees if you ask - or offer substantial discounts on used ....

potted trees may present storage problems in the winter .... especially prolonged freezing conditions .... if in the ground your trees could tolerate freezing ....but not in pots ...pots offer no protection during cold weather ... inside or covered protection like a closed shed are your only options ....

as for fertilzer - wait until leaves emerge - they are your single best indicator of what your trees need or dont need ...
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Feb 16, 2023 2:35 PM CST
Name: Zoƫ
Albuquerque NM, Elev 5310 ft (Zone 7b)
Bee Lover Salvias Region: New Mexico Herbs Container Gardener Composter
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Welcome!

Research each of your species for their suitability for whatever climate or region you're planning to move to. The white mulberry in particular is considered a noxious invasive in many states and in fact is illegal to plant in some municipalities because of its excessive pollen production. Also, they can get as tall as 50 feet and have large, spreading root systems...not sure how long it would be suited for a container unless you plan to miniaturize it.

https://www.invasive.org/alien....

It won't matter how much you prune the tops; the true damage occurs to the roots, which become cramped, girdled and circled in small containers and then are too stunted to fully and properly develop once planted in the ground. I think much depends on species, knowledgeable culture and care, and consistent upkeep. Just things to think about. Trees aren't my area of expertise, however. Hopefully you'll hear from specialists
Last edited by NMoasis Feb 16, 2023 2:42 PM Icon for preview
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Feb 16, 2023 9:36 PM CST
Name: Al F.
5b-6a mid-MI
Knowledge counters trepidation.
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- Does anyone have advice for what size container these trees should be planted in to allow for sustained growth? (current pics attached - yes, the foldgers one is ridiculous) What size container is appropriate is a function of the size of the plant's root mass and the physical properties of the grow medium. The more water a medium holds, the more critical pot size becomes. Case in point: a grow medium which holds little to no excess water (called perched water) will allow you to plant a seed or seedling in a 55 gallon drum filled to the brim with no worry the plant will be over-potted (in a pot too large, 'too large' being based on the fact that too much water in a medium limits oxygen essential to normal root function, thereby robbing the plant of some to a great deal of its potential in terms of growth, vitality (health), it's ability to defend itself against diseases and insect predation, and often - eye appeal. Using a smaller pot when the grow medium is overly water-retentive is an attempt to mitigate the limitations imposed by over-watering; this, because how much excess water held in a a medium is directly linked to the volume of medium. A smaller volume of medium = a smaller 'reservoir' of excess water = air/oxygen returning to the soil sooner = less lost potential or root damage.

Using a smaller volume of medium to avoid over-watering creates a dilemma. It means the roots colonize the soil volume faster which leads to root congestion which can also be severely limiting. It would appear that it would put every grower on the horns of said dilemma - do I use a small volume of soil as a strategy to avoid over-watering, resulting in early root congestion or do I use a large volume of soil in a larger container as an attempt to avoid early root congestion, but in doing so set the stage for root function/health issues. The best answer is neither. Using a grow medium that drains so well it allows you to use a large container removes the dilemma entirely. It also makes watering correctly and fertilizing appropriately much easier.

<b>- If they have been in the same soil since initial transplant, I imagine the nutrients are now or soon will be depleted. How often must soil be changed for container trees?
If they have been in the same media for more than a year or two, the larger issue is the root congestion. Severe root congestion can rob your plant of 100% of it's growth potential; and it could be argued that it could rob the plant in excess of 100% of its growth potential. True growth is a measure of the increase in the weight of the dry mass of a plant's living parts.

Plants are shedding organisms.When they are unable to create more food/energy through photosynthesis than they burn during respiration, they shed parts. If a plant is shedding more vegetative mass than it's putting on in the form of new leaves and branch extension, it's going backward.

In a perfect world, your primary consideration when it comes to grow media for containers is the mediums structure and how long it can retain that structure. More specifically, it would be the medium's ability to hold a favorable ratio of water to air. Nutrition, as supplied by the medium itself, would be of very little concern because the grower should shoulder that responsibility by selecting and using an appropriate fertilizer at appropriate intervals. Ask if you want help or suggestions about fertilizing.

- Do trees "need" to be pruned to grow well in containers? The top doesn't, but the bottom (roots) does.</b> I don't know how continuous branching does/does not impact overall strength and growth rate. Let's first define what it means to "grow well". To me, it means the plant is achieving about as much of it's genetic potential as it's reasonable to achieve w/o resorting to heroic effort. Defining the term is important because growers have different standards and defining the perspective from which the topic is viewed. The plant should look healthy, putting on a reasonable amount of growth, and be free of insects and diseases. A healthy root system is prerequisite to a healthy plant - can't have one w/o the other.

To be at their best, plant should be free of root congestion. To achieve that, trees should be repotted (or divided where applicable) on regular basis. Repotting consists of removing all or most of the grow medium, pruning problem roots and many of the large roots that serve primarily as plumbing, changing the grow medium, and returning the plant to a pot size-appropriate to size of the root mass and how much water the medium holds.

When it comes to the the above ground parts, the more leaf surface you can make the tree put on, the faster it will grow. Each leaf is a food factory, producing the plant's true food (sugar) through the miracle of photosynthesis. In terms of growth, pruning the top is always limiting; so if you're going for maximum growth, prune as little as you can, but do make sure you have a strategy with regard to your ability to fulfill the vision you have of the tree. Don't let things get so out of hand you would need an arborist to bail you out.

- Lastly, one of the black willows has an interesting habit of growing new trunks every year, with the old ones dying. I assume this isn't normal - any idea why they keep cycling like this? The roots are clearly strong enough to keep pushing up new trunks each year.

I don't know much about black willow, but I do know willows often have insect and disease issues, not to mention some trees are commonly known for shedding branches with the underling cause often filed under 'idiopathic'. That said, being the trunk is dying back, it might have something to do with the tree going too dry in the winter? Or, trees in containers are way ahead of their counterparts in the landscape when it comes to the spring push of leaves. If you leave the tree outside and it wakes up and starts to grow, only to be hit with a hard freeze after that occurs. I would expect it to cause the top to die back, which would account for the shrubby growth.

Al
* Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. ~ Socrates
* Change might not always bring growth, but there is no growth without change.
* Mother Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
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