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Sep 16, 2023 5:45 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Doug
Moreland Hills Ohio (Zone 6a)
I've been reading conflicting info about amending the soil when planting trees or shrubs and that there is a new style of just using native soil and nothing else. Is anyone coming across this?
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Sep 16, 2023 7:38 PM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
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https://extension.umd.edu/reso...

I think current advice is as in the link, to go with existing soil unless it has a serious problem.
Plant it and they will come.
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Sep 17, 2023 12:16 PM CST
Name: Al F.
5b-6a mid-MI
Knowledge counters trepidation.
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Current convention is that when planting woody material out (in the landscape), the plant should be bare-rooted and all root issues corrected at plant-out time. The planting hole gets backfilled with the same soil that came pout of the hole.

The bare-rooting and correction of problem roots should be done in any case. The back-filling with native soil is most important when the soil has a high clay/silt component ..... less important if/when you are planting in sandy soil. Reason: When we backfill planting holes with soil amended with OM in silty or clay soils, there is danger of creating a bathtub effect. The planting hole with it's greater porosity than clay or silt tends to fill with water after as heavy rain, and can drain so slowly it impedes root function or causes issues with root health. Back-filling with native soil eliminates that issue because once the soil has been watered or it's rained enough to settle the soil around the roots, the planting hole returns to being a homogeneous extension of surrounding soil in the landscape.

Root pruning before planting out eliminates issues like these:

This tree will soon succumb to the stress of the encircling or girdling roots; or, the stress will so weaken the plant that it has no defense against insect herbivory and/or disease pathogens.
Thumb of 2023-09-17/tapla/187151

Ultimately, this is how the tree above will end up.
Thumb of 2023-09-17/tapla/4d690a

Al
* Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. ~ Socrates
* Change might not always bring growth, but there is no growth without change.
* Mother Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
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Sep 18, 2023 6:41 AM CST
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
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PAP2012 said: I've been reading conflicting info about amending the soil when planting trees or shrubs and that there is a new style of just using native soil and nothing else. Is anyone coming across this?

While digging a hole and adding amendments to that hole has been shown to be counter-productive... When we amend the entire bed before planting trees, It has a positive result.

The apparent problem with just amending the soil in the planting hole is that the hole becomes a bath tub during the rainy season, and apparently dries out first during the dry season.

But when we go in and spread compost / manure over entire area and till or dig it in... It's the same thing as planting trees in vegetable garden... they thrive.
Avatar for PAP2012
Sep 19, 2023 4:31 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Doug
Moreland Hills Ohio (Zone 6a)
Doing my own research I have come across the bath tub effect but none of the articles I've seen talk much or anything about nutrition. Yes native soil may have some or all the things a plant will need at least to start out with but shouldn't amendments to full fill that gap be added? When I plant I only use a few handfuls of garden soil and starter fertilizer. I would not imagine that would do any harm. Not like I'm using a whole bag of each.
Avatar for SedonaDebbie
Sep 19, 2023 8:34 PM CST
Name: Debbie
Sedona Arizona (Zone 8b)
I have some questions that I think are important.... What is your soil like now? What is growing in it? What have you tried to grow that didn't work out? What did work out well? What are you thinking of planting? Do you think you'll have a problem with the bathtub effect? Do you think you have a problem with nutrition or are you just curious about options? You've been given some very good advice which will help you under certain conditions but we don't know your conditions. Inquiring minds would like to know....
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Sep 20, 2023 5:42 AM CST
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
Garden Sages Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier
PAP2012 said:native soil may have some or all the things a plant will need at least to start out with but shouldn't amendments to full fill that gap be added?

I feel the same way.
As I only plant organically, If I'm planting a solitary tree instead of an entire island, I top-dress the entire planting circle with compost/manure before covering with mulch.

I find that I get much faster growth when I work up a large area with a number of trees, compared with setting out a specimen tree in the middle of a patch of turf.
You've asked some good questions, and I think that the best answers will only be arrived at by getting out there and planting some trees, and then observing how well your babies grow.
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Sep 20, 2023 5:52 AM CST
Name: Sally
central Maryland (Zone 7b)
See you in the funny papers!
Charter ATP Member Frogs and Toads Houseplants Keeper of Poultry Vegetable Grower Region: Maryland
Composter Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Region: United States of America Cat Lover Birds
You can't assume your soil is lacking anything, unless you have a soil test, and not just an NPK home kit.
Are there things already growing around you? Maybe the soil is fine.

as to root pruning, yes. I planted a plum that had all the roots chopped off about 8 inches long for bagging for the big box store. Thing grew like a monster.
Plant it and they will come.
Avatar for PAP2012
Sep 20, 2023 8:23 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Doug
Moreland Hills Ohio (Zone 6a)
I started a new perennial garden this year and did a soil test and sent it to a lab and the results came back as optimum or close to optimum in every element and was also good range in ph and organic matter and I did not add anything to it prior so it shows that native soil is indeed possible okay by it's self but that can't be said every where which amending would be needed. I live in a area with hard clay soil so amending is pretty much a must around here,
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