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Avatar for BenCSS
Dec 17, 2023 10:19 PM CST
Thread OP

I have grown a lot of different plants from seed but there is a challenge I encounter with many cactus and succulent seeds. At around the size of a dry pea they stop growing. Eventually some bounce back and start growing again but some never do and eventually die. (currently I have some frailea I started in 2021 the largest is about the size of a dry pea the rest about the size of peppercorn.) So I'm looking for any advice to improve seedling growth. I will provide as much info about my current growing conditions as I can below.

I live in Chicago and so I grow my seeds indoor under grow lights until it is safe to move them outdoors the next summer. I started a variety of different seeds over summer all have stopped growing. I started them in a humidity tray in washed builders sand. (In the past I used coconut coir but stopped do to mold and plants damping off.) I left them in the humidity trays until haworthiopsis, psudolithos, &, Whitesloanea crassa seedlings started dying about 5 months later. After that I took them out and cut back on watering to twice a week. PH of water is about 6.3 Temperature average around 72 ° farenhight. Fertilizer I started with was Bonide Liquid Cactus Plant Food, but I switched to Liqui-Dirt a few weeks ago. (I haven't noticed any change)
Light - Cresmar P1200 LED Grow Light. The lighting varies depending on their position:
120 µmol/m²/s - Psudolithos cubiformis, pseudolithos migiurtinus , Whitesloanea crassa, & Pilosocereus leucocephalus
The Psudolithos & Pilosocereus appear a heathy green color. The Whitesloanea looks kind of yellow/brown looking, not sure if that's normal for it.
70µmol/m²/s - aloe hybrids
They look sun stressed, but I am not worried about these since I grow a lot of aloe and they always start growing again in Summer.

40 µmol/m²/s - aloe hybrids, & haworthiopsis
These aloe hybrids look heathier.
Last edited by BenCSS Dec 17, 2023 10:20 PM Icon for preview
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Dec 18, 2023 2:39 PM CST
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
I am curious - where do the µmol/m²/s fit in? Are you trying to quantify some sort of concentration?
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Dec 18, 2023 3:41 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
That is a measure of light if I am not mistaken.

I have no experience with artificial light, so I can't comment on that. I start my seedlings on a sunny southerly facing windowsill with all natural light. Whatever light conditions work for full size plants ought to be sufficient for seedlings, in an indoor situation. Or at least that ought to give you a good starting point.

I have always started my seedlings in the same type of soil I use for my adult plants, maybe with a slightly finer grade of pumice. That mix is 50% pumice, 50% organic (evenly split between cocofiber and compost). I try to sterilize it by cooking it first and then sowing the seeds after the soil has cooled down. This cooking is not actually required depending on the source of the starting material, given big, fast growing seeds. It is increasingly important with tiny, slow growing seeds. It will reduce the growth of competing organisms and it will lower the likelihood of damping off (fungal problems).

If I am reusing old pots, I try to bleach them first to kill off any microscopic travelers. I do not use fungicide but I am very careful about hygiene (eg. watering only with purified water until the baby seedlings are well past the size where yours have been paused). I do acidify our purified water to pH 6 for all my plants. Don't know if it matters but a neutral or slightly acidic pH ought to be good.

I treat big seeds and small seeds differently. Most aloes and agaves make relatively big seeds, many cacti and most Crassulaceae make small to tiny seeds. The big seeds will be independent sooner and will enjoy an accelerated transition to normal watering. Small, slow growing seeds (eg. Mammillarias) will need to stay under plastic (and I don't lift it at all, ever) until a few months have passed. So I don't think there's one best method for all, you kind of have to tailor things for each plant.

There could be some issue with water. You sort of have to manage the transition from 100% humidity all the time (under clear plastic, with saturated soil) to 0% humidity some of the time (the adult plants will enjoy the soil drying out all the way on a fairly regular basis). Keep it gradual and progressive. For me that means keeping seedlings under cover (and not lifting the cover) until they are roughly pea sized (for cacti) or the size of a small fingernail (aloes, agaves). I cover with clear plastic wrap and water from below during this period (leaving the container parked in a deep saucer full of water for about half an hour to allow the water to saturate the soil).

Once I remove the lid, I transition to regular misting (also with purified water) 2 or 3 times a day for starters, with bottom watering on a weekly basis as before. The goal is for the top layer of soil to remain moist nearly all the time, and to keep the rest of the soil from going anywhere near dry. Bottom watering helps me avoid uprooting tiny plants (even a big drop of water can spell doom for a tiny seedling if it falls the wrong way). At some point when the seedlings are big enough to water from above I will start watering twice a week (with no more misting), and then maybe 6 months or a year into the process (with faster growing succulents) I might go to weekly watering.

Slower growing plants will sit there and look like they are doing nothing, but are in fact very gradually building up steam. So don't give up prematurely because of impatience. Your list of plants looks fairly ambitious so you might find some a lot harder than others.

Hope this helps. Smiling

Welcome! to the forum!
Last edited by Baja_Costero Dec 18, 2023 3:43 PM Icon for preview
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Dec 18, 2023 3:59 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
It might help if you shared some pics.

The baby seedlings I have here at the moment... all in 4 inch pots.

Mammillaria, just barely big enough to lift the lid, pumice is screened to 1/4 inch

Thumb of 2023-12-18/Baja_Costero/556d47

Typically I drop in that pumice on top of the soil when I lift the lid, one layer thick, to keep everyone standing upright and to provide a bit of a barrier to keep the top layer of soil from drying out too fast.

A second species of Mammillaria, faster and further along

Thumb of 2023-12-18/Baja_Costero/a0b54c

And a couple of agaves that I am now watering once a week (so fully weaned from baby treatment).

Thumb of 2023-12-18/Baja_Costero/a046b9
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Dec 18, 2023 4:55 PM CST
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
"That is a measure of light if I am not mistaken."

Thanks Baja! Smiling Sorry, I was stumped!
Avatar for BenCSS
Dec 19, 2023 12:28 AM CST
Thread OP

µmol/m²/s is the measure of light from a Quantum PAR Meter.
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Dec 19, 2023 7:53 AM CST
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
Thank you Ben!
I was used to working with µmoles of chemical compounds! Smiling Learned something new!
Avatar for BenCSS
Feb 1, 2024 2:20 AM CST
Thread OP

Took some suggestions from different forums unfortunately nothing made a noticeable positive difference, except for increasing the brightness of the grow lights a little bit.
Tried repotting some in the recommended ratio 1/3 potting soil,1/3 builders sand, and 1/3 perlite (But I substituted red lava rock because I couldn't find my perlite at the time. These seedling did the worst of the bunch.
Tried increasing watering 3 to 4 days a week on the aloe and Pilosocereus.
Tried increasing the hours of lighting from 12 to 16 hours a day.
Tried changing the fertilizer to Schultz 20:20:20 at 1/4 tsp per gallon
Photos on the left at the beginning of the month/ right at the end of the month.
Thumb of 2024-02-01/BenCSS/217055

Thumb of 2024-02-01/BenCSS/2e5ab5

Thumb of 2024-02-01/BenCSS/335a2e

Thumb of 2024-02-01/BenCSS/650d4d

Still open to any subjections.
I might try watering some daily. Also thinking about trying plant growth regulators.
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Feb 1, 2024 11:01 AM CST
Georgia (Zone 8a)
Region: Georgia Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Dog Lover Cactus and Succulents Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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My two cactus seedlings stopped growing once I brought them in. They're under a grow light that has enough light to have made Momma and a neighboring cactus bloom, but the babies have stopped growing for now. It might be a seasonal thing. Thinking
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Feb 1, 2024 2:15 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
Fertilizer dose sounds good. Not sure what explains the change in color to brown, maybe the increase in light. I would not expect a lot of growth in a month, young seedlings are very slow. I find they do their best growing when I am paying attention to other things.

Smiling
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