Hi all- Hope everyone is enjoying the down time of winter!

One thing i have been wondering is innovation is the peony space. For many years there were many itoh peony being bred and patented (e.g., bartzella, belle tousaline, duchesse de Lorraine, etc.). And it was very informative that you can find the patent documentation to read through the specifics.

The past few years i have not seen many new itoh cultivars come to market. Now of course this is a broad statement and not entirely true. But when it comes to ithos i have not seem much new.

Any ideas or reason for this? I love itohs and the patented plants in the 2010's are great but i keep hoping for improved / new versions and have not seen much for sale

Swensons introduced a few Itoh's recently:
https://swensongardens.com/Hom...

There are still some new ones coming out. As Anya stated Swenson's has had several over the last few years, believe Adelman's had as well. Some of the European hybridizers don't seem interested in registering theirs so sometimes it's hard to know if it's a new variety or a renamed one.

I wish Solaris was more into Itohs - Nate has such great roots. I love the Itohs, too - they grow so much faster than tree peonies!

The Sonoma series by the late Irene Tolomeo is one of the recent Itoh .
She arranged for Adelmans to take over her stock.

Zellycat said: I wish Solaris was more into Itohs - Nate has such great roots. I love the Itohs, too - they grow so much faster than tree peonies!

Nate is not interested in growing and introducing Itohs, there are too few these hybrids that have stable flowers and traits in general.

Although I was very excited about itohs in previous years, I am somewhat disillusioned about them now. Their performance is not consistent. Over the years, most of my bushes have produced lesser and lesser flowers particularly the newer ones. I have found that they peaked in performance in about year 3 and 4 and then just went down in bloom production. I wonder if this peony type needs regular divisions (possibly due to root crowding) in order to do well, sort of like bearded irises. And then there are some itohs that have not done well for me from the beginning. These include Sonoma Apricot, Ballerina de Saval, Oochigas, and Caroline Constabel. Lollipop maybe another if it does not bloom well next year.

Oh, I'm in year 3 and 4 for mine - I hope they don't go downhill! I don't do anything with mine so I wouldn't be surprised if they do - but for comparison, Karen, do you put aged manure around them or make sure they're watered in the summer when they're setting buds or otherwise fertilize, etc? Oh I did mix in aged manure in the hole, below the roots, when I planted them. We're in similar locations so I'm curious.

I've loved them so far because they've thrived with neglect. They do get a solid 6 hours of sun, though, so maybe that's helped them.

Karen, my Sonoma Apricot is also not performing well. I plan to get rid of it.

Itohs seem to need less chill hours than herbaceous and stand up to the AL summer heat better as well, so far. We'll see how it goes in the future. There are several Itohs that I absolutely love but some have never bloomed well for me.

anyagoro said: Swensons introduced a few Itoh's recently:
https://swensongardens.com/Hom...

Thank you for sharing!

And appreciate all the replies - I too have noticed more inconsistency in my itohs but there are certain flowersl types (e.g., true full double yellow like duchess de Lorraine) that are hard to find for a reasonable price otherwise.

My itohs are mostly 5 years old or so, maybe in a few years i will try dividing to see if helps as they get older.

Zellycat said: Oh, I'm in year 3 and 4 for mine - I hope they don't go downhill! I don't do anything with mine so I wouldn't be surprised if they do - but for comparison, Karen, do you put aged manure around them or make sure they're watered in the summer when they're setting buds or otherwise fertilize, etc? Oh I did mix in aged manure in the hole, below the roots, when I planted them. We're in similar locations so I'm curious.

I've loved them so far because they've thrived with neglect. They do get a solid 6 hours of sun, though, so maybe that's helped them.

Then you are in for a fantastic treat! They are usually at their best during these years for me. It's only after year 5 that their flower production starts to noticeably decline. However, if you have great soil and ample space for their roots to expand, I think you possibly won't encounter the issue that I face. And if you add compost and bulb fertilizers on a regular basis, I think your itohs may avoid declining flower production. My soil isn't the best and I don't add fertilizer regularly. In spite of this, my herbaceous do well every year but itohs don't eventhough they are in the same bed. That's why I don't favor them as much as I used to.

Jmufossil said: Thank you for sharing!

And appreciate all the replies - I too have noticed more inconsistency in my itohs but there are certain flowersl types (e.g., true full double yellow like duchess de Lorraine) that are hard to find for a reasonable price otherwise.

My itohs are mostly 5 years old or so, maybe in a few years i will try dividing to see if helps as they get older.

I do love some of my itohs particularly those with colors that you don't find in the herbaceous peony like peach, yellow, apricot, and purple. My favorites are Mikasa, Magical Mystery Tour, Duchess De Lorraine, and First Arrival.

The strongest itoh performers in my garden are Bartzella and Hillary and possibly Duchess De Lorraine. Jury is still out on Danse Du Feu, Scrum, Mikasa, and Belle Toulousaine as they are still less than 4 years old.

My Itohs are strong shrubs that do not require any support. They also tend to look good for the entire season. I have had a few that have taken several years to establish. I have a few that produce bushy 3 foot shrubs with no flowers. Many produce flowers that are somewhat hidden by the foliage. They are not all that good as a cut flower. Compared to herbaceous peonies, flower production is subpar (not even close). Itohs offer more color choices. I have no herbaceous yellows.

I have 46 varieties of Itoh peonies. I have not culled any. I have not paid much attention to their performance. I purchased 'Garden Treasure' in 2004. It has slowly declined in flower production over the years. I have been thinking about dividing it for several years.

this year I will try to pay more attention to the performance of my Itoh peonies and share that on this forum.

I have 17 Itoh's but a few are still too young to judge. Best performer with no decline in flower production are First Arrival, Julia Rose, Magical Mystery Tour, Bartzella, Cora Louise, Sonoma Halo, Garden Treasure, Joanna Marlene, New Millennium and Pink Double Dandy.

I have a lot of Itohs, but the flower production is hit or miss. I believe the late frosts I get in spring ruin the buds.
The very best one I have here is Sonoma Halo. The bush is huge and it blooms every year! New Millennium also blooms every year.

It's so cool to hear the feedback on the Itohs everybody, thanks! And I'll definitely stop being lazy and spread some bagged cow compost around the drip line. Bonus - it will get rid of the bags hanging around my driveway. : )

So far Hillary, Scrum and Smith family Jewel have been amazing but they're young. I don't have any herb ones that bloom yet (just planted Lorelei and coral charm but they didn't bloom last year) so I have nothing to compare them to - maybe I have no choice but to buy some for comparison!

I only have about a dozen Itohs - the oldest are around 25 years old now - and all thrive here despite the fact that I have never fertilized anything in my garden The new ones often flower better but only because of their genetics I believe. That being said, Bartzella, Garden Treasure, and Morning Lilac are still prolific bloomers here. A newer favourite is Lollipop - not only does it produce many blooms but it's a vigorous multiplier here too.

I think there's another reason we are seeing fewer new Itoh introductions. While there's still a little room for innovation and work to be done (reds with a measle-free foliage appearance, more purple-toned cvs, stable cultivars with consistent flowers), I think we are at the point of diminishing returns, and we've pretty much seen most of what will result from the Itoh cross. A hybridizer worth their salt won't introduce something unless it provides unique value, and that may be harder to do after several decades of Itoh breeding (just think of how many similar looking orangey yellow Itohs there are; when you get them on a show table next to eachother they look next to indistinguishable). Hybridizers are likely simply moving on.

I meet with Don Smith, who has introduced many great Itohs that grow well here in the cold part of Canada, every month, and he is no longer working on the standard Itoh cross. Instead he is interested in generating advanced generation Itoh hybrids - progeny from Itoh plants which were once thought to be an impossible result. There are a few out there already - check out Maschke's 'Moonwalk'. The interesting thing is that fertility is often restored once you get past the initial hump of the Itoh's reduced fertility and are able to produce a seed from them that actually grows. These are the uncharted waters that are generating a buzz in hybridizing community and where a renewed interest lies. The cross is very difficult with a very low rate of success, but everyone wants to do something new and different, and this makes the results all the more exciting. Hopefully a new generation of plants will be available on the market in the coming years.