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Mar 6, 2015 5:33 PM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
Mj, the Callas really love cooler weather. Once it starts to heat up they stop blooming and go completely dormant in the summer. But they come back up in the fall and bloom though winter. The trick is to get them started because most of the time the bulbs are offered in the spring, when mine have already been blooming for a month or two.

I have them in big pots and once they've died back I stick the pots in the coolest, driest spot I can find, shady side of the house under an overhang is good. If you remind me in the fall I'll share some bulbs to get you started at the right time.

I had some in my water garden, and the foliage stayed nice year 'round there, but they never bloomed. Sad
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
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Mar 6, 2015 6:27 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
I'm so glad I'm getting everyone interested in Lepidoptera (that's the Latin name for the family that includes moths and butterflies). Ken, that's so cool that the Spicebush Swallowtail is your state butterfly! A fine choice, I think. Ours is is the Zebra Longwing, which is my profile picture. The Spicebush ST is one of our favorite caterpillars at MOSI because they have adorable false eyespots. There's actually a Pokemon based on them called Caterpie. So there's a certain generation at MOSI that's always like, "That looks like a Pokemon!" I even had a little boy look at one of our signs that has the caterpillar featured on it and he said he didn't think that was a real caterpillar. Luckily, we had some in the lab so I went and got one and showed him just how real it was! Here's a picture I took years ago at MOSI. Spicebush turn green near their last molt (before that they're brown and white) but they mysteriously turn yellow or orange right before they pupate.

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Here's a smaller Spicebush. They're supposed to look like bird poop so they don't get eaten (several Swallowtail caterpillars look like this). Once they turn green with the eyespots they're a snake mimic. They make little shelters where they roll the leaves over themselves which actually makes them pretty easy to find.

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It was a cool day with intermittent sprinkles so I didn't get too much done. Dad weeded and turned over the soil in my butterfly garden (the main one, anyway) and I pulled some of the smaller weeds right under the plants. I'm a little mad at him for digging up one of my Carolina Petunias despite the fact that I placed a marker right next to it. Such is life. I hate having other people in my garden unless I'm supervising them! But he's a pretty good worker most of the time. Hilarious!
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Mar 6, 2015 6:54 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Those ST cats really are cute. They look like they would have a smile on their face.

I goofed yesterday -- I meant to say I had seen a very small Zebra Swallowtail not that I had seen a Zebra LW. Shows how tired I was b/c I will not yet admit to being daft. Hilarious!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 6, 2015 7:03 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Ooh Ann, that's even better! Zebra Swallowtails are my favorite butterfly. They do vary in size during the year, particularly their tails. They have long tails compared to the other Swallowtails, but in the summer they're at their longest. They are also the only representative of the "Kite Swallowtails" in North America. Notice how it's shaped more like a triangle (or kite) than the other Swallowtails.

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Mar 6, 2015 7:12 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
This was the tiniest one I have ever seen Melanie. I kept doing double takes b/c I couldn't believe I was seeing what I was seeing. I chalked it up to the season just coming off of winter but was thrilled to see one so early. Now I'm a little worried as it's slated to go down to 38 tonight but I suppose the butterflies have been taking care of themselves for thousands of years & know what to do. We have lots of places where there are massive oaks with limbs that overhang great areas. The grass (weeds) haven't even gone dormant under them so I imagine the butterflies will spend the night in these microclimates where it will stay at least several degrees warmer.

BTW, that makes me think of a question. Just how long have butterflies been around? I wonder what is the age of the earliest known butterfly fossil? Here I go a-Googling.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 6, 2015 7:20 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Here we go:
http://www.learnaboutbutterfli...
140-200 million years ago

but then there is this which says the lower Jurassic period.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1...
The lower Jurassic period 201.3 million years ago.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 6, 2015 7:33 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Cool, Ann! Yeah, the butterflies can actually stand freezing temps; the important thing is that they don't get their wings wet because ice crystals can form and that does kill them. It actually gets down to freezing temps even where the Monarchs spend the winter in Mexico. But the trees they hang on to do provide a micro climate that helps insulate them.

Speaking of Monarchs, Ken made and interesting point about the role of butterflies and moths in cultural traditions. Not all of them are as scary as his example! Monarchs tend to return to Mexico around the first of November when the Mexicans celebrate the Day of the Dead. They believe the Monarchs are the souls of the dead returning home. So if we lose the migration, it will be an environmental and cultural loss.

I thought you guys might want to see what those Hickory Horned Devils turn into. This is the mother of our caterpillars. Known as the Regal Moth, I got to collect the eggs she laid all over the screen in our flight cage. Moths are weird like that, sometimes. They don't actually have to lay eggs on a specific plant. People who raise moths will often take a female, tie a string around her and attach her to a tree. The males can smell her pheromones from miles away. Once fertilized, you can place some of these moths in a paper bag and they will lay eggs like crazy. I think that's mostly true for the family known as Saturniidae moths (basically, the big guys). Of course, you still have to feed the caterpillars the correct plant. You can see that the huge caterpillar turns into an equally big moth.

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Mar 6, 2015 7:55 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Stunning moth!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 7, 2015 9:10 AM CST
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Ukraine Enjoys or suffers hot summers Pollen collector Native Plants and Wildflowers
Hydrangeas Hummingbirder Dragonflies Daylilies Butterflies Birds
Its cool here this morning, but we have one up on Jean, and that is thankfully some sun! Ive got some stuff I started outside Thursday, but left it yesterday when it was nasty. Its a must do today.
Im getting a little hooked on these butterflies. I might just have to break my rule of nothing else this year I have to dig a hole for. Whistling They need some more goodies around here, and the hummers wont complain about some new things as well.
Ive showed these before, I just love the red horn tho when thet get irritated.
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Mar 7, 2015 12:02 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Cute aren't they?

I'm thinking the same thing Pam. I'm thinking I need to place an order with Mail Order natives & get some passion vine and a Paw Paw & maybe a few other things. I keep thinking about pipe vine but every time I read about it, it says how it smells like rotting meat & that I'm just not so sure about. I could put it far enough away that the odor wouldn't matter but the problem is that it will most likely get mowed down there & that would defeat the whole purpose. Sighing!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 7, 2015 1:08 PM CST
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover The WITWIT Badge Region: Ukraine Enjoys or suffers hot summers Pollen collector Native Plants and Wildflowers
Hydrangeas Hummingbirder Dragonflies Daylilies Butterflies Birds
These love the Meyer lemon. Its such an ugly bush anyway, I dont care if they have their way with it. As long as it blooms, and I get some lemons, Im good.

I had one of those starfish blooming plants that smelled like rotten meat. It was horrible, and you could not keep the flys away.

My Buckeye is blooming away out there. I think Im going to get a few more of those this year. They dont bloom all that long, but the hummers like them, and then they make a nice tree the rest of the year. Ill get a picture when I go back out in a bit.
Last edited by gardenglory Mar 7, 2015 1:10 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 7, 2015 1:26 PM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
Put some carnivorous plants adjacent to those "starfish" plants. They'll have a feast! Thumbs up
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Mar 7, 2015 2:26 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Pipevine only smells bad to me when I pick it or the caterpillars eat it. I think you have to break it in some way to release the chemicals that smell bad. Also, the native ones don't smell nearly as bad as the tropicals which is why I have a theory regarding the toxicity of the plants and why the tropical varieties kill the Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillars. The native, Wooly Pipevine I've grown for two years now doesn't bother me at all. I got it from Mail Order Natives (love those, folks).

Pam, that's a great picture of a Giant Swallowtail caterpillar flashing its osmeterium (we like to call them stinkhorns) at you. It's a defense mechanism that smells bad (just try washing that smell off your hands) but it also designed to look like a snake's forked tongue. I like the Giants because most Swallowtails have orange or yellow stinkhorns, but the Giants are red. Here's one of my favorite pictures from MOSI.

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Mar 7, 2015 2:31 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: mj
Central Florida
Butterflies Region: Florida Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant and/or Seed Trader
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
I grow both the Aristolochia fimbriata ( White Veined Dutchman's Pipe (Aristolochia fimbriata)
and the Aristolochia trilobata ( Dutchman's Pipe (Aristolochia trilobata) ) and you have to get pretty close to these to smell them. Not great, but not really unpleasant either.


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God gave us wings. He just called them horses
Last edited by mjsponies Mar 7, 2015 6:42 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 7, 2015 4:04 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Oh okay, then pipevine is back on the list. Thumbs up Thanks guys! Smiling
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 7, 2015 8:01 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Since we're talking pipevine and I am now fully awake (with a Stabucks Iced Vanilla Latte for help), it's time for Melanie's Pipevine PSA or "How to Stop Worrying and Love the Caterpillars."

Pipevines can be a tricky thing in Florida (and probably Texas, too). You see, we are blessed with two kinds of Swallowtails that eat Pipevine, or Aristolochia species. Aristolochia plants have a chemical aptly called aristolochic acids, which makes the caterpillars most distasteful. In a story I can't make up, there is a professor I read about who has eaten one of every kind of caterpillar he has raised to see how bad they really taste. He deemed the Pipevine Swallowtail the worst, but he wasn't in a region where Polydamas lived which made me wonder if he had a thorough sample. Not that I advocate eating caterpillars.

The Pipevine Swallowtail is pretty much a North American butterfly and is found through pretty much all of Florida. The Polydamas, on the other hand, is more of a tropical butterfly found in Central and South America, as well as many islands in the Caribbean. Many islands even have their own subspecies due to the isolated nature of their populations. According to my field guide, the Polydamas doesn't go up much into the Panhandle, but my book is also wrong a lot. So for the most part, the Pipevine and the Polydamas have their own territories. Except for us lucky few where they overlap. And that's where the problems begin.

Before humans came along and messed everything up, the butterflies happily used the pipevines that were native to their area. The Pipevine Swallowtail mostly uses a plant called Virginia Snakeroot (A.serpentaria). I wouldn't know this plant if it slapped me in the face. From what I know, it mostly grows along the ground and the caterpillars actually need many plants to grow to adulthood because it doesn't get very large. From the shape of the leaves, I would probably assume it was skunkvine and pull it up. But, there are other native Aristolochias such as the one I've been growing, Wooly Pipevine or A. tomentosa. According to the ISB Plant Atlas (http://www.florida.plantatlas....) it's only native to the panhandle but I have had no problem growing it here. For some odd reason I haven't added any photos to the plant database, but other folks have. I will rectify that soon. There is also a native A. pentandra which grows only in two counties in south Florida. Both A. tomentosa and A. pentandra are listed as endangered which I think is another reason to grow them.

Now, there are other pipevines, too. Most of the ones you see for sale are going to be the tropical pipevines with the huge crazy flowers. Usually called Dutchman's Pipevine or Calico Flower, these include species like A. elegans, A. macrophylla, A. grandiflora, and A. gigantea. These plants are mostly native to Central and South America so they're fine for the Polydamas who evolved right along with them. However, the Pipevine Swallowtails will use them, too only to die in the vast majority of cases (okay, all the cases I've seen). I have a theory that the tropical species have more Aristolochic acids than the North American ones and that the Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillars are not able to harbor as much of the chemical as the Polydamas Swallowtail. That's just my theory. If anyone wants to give me a lab, some assistants, and a research grant, I will get right on it. FYI, there's an A. littoralis (common name Elegant Dutchman's Pipevine or Calico Flower) that is a Category II invasive in Florida.

Then, there are pipevines that sort of fall in the middle. MJ listed two of them for us: A. fimbriata and A. trilobata. I've also seen A. triloba and can't figure out if it's different than A. trilobata or a synonym. Some people claim these are okay for both species. We actually have both at MOSI (although we just got the A. fimbriata last year) and I have to say that I think the verdict is out. I have seen Pipevine Swallowtails make it to adulthood on A. trilobata, but we've never been able to raise Pipevines Swallowtails with the same success as the other Swallowtail species. This may just be natural, but I can't help but wonder. I've only had my Wooly Pipevine for about two years and haven't been able to raise enough caterpillars to form an opinion on their "normal" survival rate.

So now you might be thinking, "Why would people plant the tropical varieties?" Well, many reasons. Some aren't butterfly gardeners and just like the crazy flowers. Availability is a huge reason. But a big reason is that the tropical varieties grow much larger and much faster than the natives. I bought a Dutchman's Pipevine simply to have enough food to keep up with the demand from the Polydamas. In doing so, I knew I had to take the responsibility to check that vine at least every other day and remove any Pipevine Swallowtail eggs so I wouldn't kill them. But not everybody does that or knows to do that. I have since ripped out the Dutchman's Pipevine and I am going strictly native this year. (I also ripped out all my Tropical Milkweed but that's another post.) I only have two Wooly Pipevine plants which are just leafing out but I am going to purchase more. A lot more. And then I'm going to grow some in my shade house (where the orchids hang out) so the butterflies can't lay eggs on them.

And now you may be thinking, "Melanie, how do I know which ones I've got?" Fortunately, the eggs are super easy to tell apart. Pipevine ST eggs are reddish-orange while Polydamas eggs are generally golden yellow (although sometimes they verge on a greenish-yellow. Now, my book (and conventional butterfly wisdom) will tell you that a butterfly will not lay eggs on a plant that already has eggs on it. And to that I say, "Bunk!" While most Swallowtails are actually pretty good about judging their egg-to-plant ratio, Polydamas don't care. They will go insane. Which is weird because their caterpillars have a really good survival rate, even in the wild. Here's a picture I took last year at MOSI. As you can see, the Pipevine Swallowtail laid its reddish-orange eggs on the left, and then a Polydamas laid its yellow eggs on the right. This is a non-native pipevine so I took the eggs into the lab and separated them into appropriate tanks.

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But what if you find a caterpillar? They are very, very similar, and hard to tell when they're very small. The best thing to do would be to keep feeding it whatever you found it on. Pipevine Swallowtails die very fast on tropical pipevines; I've never found one on a tropical pipevine. But in case you want to see the difference, here we go! Both have tubercles (those things that everyone calls antenna in the front) but the Pipevine ST has way longer ones. Also, the Pipevine ST caterpillars tend to be darker in color. Polydamas often get striping or a reddish hue when exposed to UV rays and will lighten as they get bigger. But the tubercles are generally the easiest way to tell. Okay, this isn't the best picture I ever took, but have you ever tried to get two caterpillars to pose? On the left is the Pipevine ST and on the right is the Polydamas.

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Here's a look at a much younger Pipevine caterpillar. You can still see how long the front tubercles are compared to the body. Also, the Pipevine cats don't get as thick as the Polydamas.

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For comparison, here's a bunch of Polydamas at about the same size. Both species are communal when they're young, but go solo by the time they're almost grown. My mom insists they're "snuggling" and doesn't listen to me when I tell her I think it's a defense mechanism. Hilarious!

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If you still can't tell, tag me in a post or send a Tree Mail and I will try to help! Now, after all this egg and caterpillar talk, some of you are probably thinking, "But what do the butterflies look like, Melanie?" After all, that's the point, right? Well, let's start with some Pipevine Swallowtails. You can actually tell the sexes apart because the males have a super, shimmery blue color on their lower wings (top side). Many, many butterflies also have blue on the bottom of their lower wings to mimic this foul-tasting butterfly. Females don't have as much (or sometimes no) blue. Also, the female is the one that lays the eggs. Hilarious!

Let's start with some female Pipevine Swallowtails. Notice the dull black with white spots. That's only on the top side of their wings, though. Both sexes still have shimmery blue on the underside as you can see in the picture where she's laying eggs (on my tropical pipevine, by the way).

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Now, here's some Pipevine males. You don't always see the blue because the light has to hit it in the right way. Butterflies have different ways of making color - some are straight up pigments, some refract or reflect light. There's a lot of research going on in this area right now. But that blue flash is a warning that they taste bad and like I said, many butterflies mimic this. Oh, and don't worry about the guy missing part of his wing. Better to lose part of a wing than your life!

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On to the Polydamas! Also known as the "Gold Rim Swallowtail" or the "Tailless Swallowtail". The first name is obvious, but the tailless thing comes from the fact that even though they are a member of the Swallowtail family, Polydamas don't actually have tails. Those tails are also a defense mechanism and are designed to fool birds into going for them instead of the head. Maybe Polydamas taste bad enough they're like, "We don't need no stinkin' tails!" Also, it's very hard to get a shot of them with their wings open so I'm really lucky to get that one picture of it on the plumbago.

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I want to yell "Push" when I see this picture. Rolling on the floor laughing

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So now that we're all educated, I expect to see some caterpillars and butterflies on this thread! Or the butterfly thread. Or both. Spread the love around, you know.
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Mar 7, 2015 10:08 PM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
Fabulous lecture, professor Melanie! Love the story about the prof eating the caterpillars.

I'll for sure start taking more pictures of butterflies now, although I mostly have monarchs, Zebra Longwing and Frittilaries.

What do you call it when you come upon a whole group of Zebra Longwings 'roosting' on a branch - this was late one evening and it was too dark to get a picture but there were at least 6 of them all hanging on one twig and I sort of blundered into them, disturbing a couple before I realized they were there. Are they sleeping, or mating or what?
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
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Mar 7, 2015 11:21 PM CST
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Thanks, Elaine! And you're spot on with the Zebra Longwings. It is indeed, called "roosting". I've read various things about whether butterflies actually "sleep" as we know it, but they definitely have some kind of rest period at night. And the grouping they do is for defense. My bosses just did a blog about roosting; check it out: http://lepcurious.blogspot.com...
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Mar 8, 2015 7:31 AM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Interesting!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Mar 8, 2015 8:15 AM CST
Name: Ron
Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Region: Florida Hummingbirder Butterflies Adeniums Bromeliad Hibiscus
Foliage Fan Plant and/or Seed Trader Xeriscape Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1 Plant Identifier
FWIW, I ran into the A. trilobata/A. triloba issue recently, as I had received some seed in a trade and researching pics/info became confusing. I did a check, and A. triloba is a synonym (misspelling) of A. trilobata.
See http://www.theplantlist.org/tp....

Melanie, in looking at your caterpillar pics, trying to get a handle on the difference between the Pipevine and the Gold Rim, I noticed a gold ring behind the head of the Gold Rim caterpillar. Is this a diagnostic feature? Just curious for now, as I don't have any pipevine plants growing yet.

I have four types of seed to play with: A. trilobata, A. fimbriata, A. macrophylla, and A. gigantea. Now that I know the issues with A. gigantea, I will probably only grow it once, just to see the flowers. If I had realized what I was getting I probably wouldn't have requested any of the seed, as I was having a brain-lapse at the time and thought I was getting seed of different types of Nepenthes (Pitcher Plant vines), which I really wanted.

I'm glad I have the pipevine types to fiddle with for a bit, but will likely only keep those good for our butterflies, and only then if I can naturalize them on the property away from the house. Away from the house, not so much because of any smell, but so I can just let the caterpillars have at them without worrying about ugly plants.

I am also curious about the Tropical Milkweed. Why did you rip it out?
[He] decided that if a few quiet beers wouldn't allow him to see things in a different light, then a few more probably would. - Terry Pratchett

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