Tori, they are looking good!

As far as the tray on the bottom under the lights, can you switch things around maybe once a day?

When you get ready to transplant the seedlings in the Jiffy peat pellets, here's what I would do:
Tear the netting off the pellet and soak the pellet/seedlings in a small bowl of water. The peat will wash away easily and you should be able to separate them without any problem.

On the beans, it's kinda early to plant them, and most people plant them direct. You can start them inside and transplant outside but I think you may have jumped the gun on them. Either take a chance when they get a bit larger and plant directly outside and cover if it's going to be danger of frost or maybe get a planter box you can grow them in. Just suggestions.

Hyssop and lavender take a bit longer to germinate.

You're probably not going to like to hear this, but I think you should pinch all but one of the seedlings you transplanted. You really only want one per cell, even the larger ones. Otherwise you will just have to transplant and separate again and it will set them back if you're pulling on the roots as they get larger. I know it's hard to throw away any of the babies but trust me, it's easier in the long run than to try and keep all that you have. I do market gardening and trust me, you have more seedlings started than I ever would have. Can you use any of the spaces in the original plug tray? I can't tell if there are empty spots? Or, just paper cups will work. Yogurt cups. Paper pots. Whatever, but just plant a single plant per.

Wish I was a bit closer, I would come and help you!

Oh, once they have first true leaves, take advantage of the nice days too and put your seedlings outside for a few hours, protected from the wind. Keep a careful eye on them drying out in small containers though. 9

lol. My husband keeps saying, "WHY do you need that many plants?!" I didn't realize when I started just how many I would have. I expected that some wouldn't make it, but so far, that hasn't been the case.

"I do market gardening and trust me, you have more seedlings started than I ever would have." Now that comment right there scares me! Yikes! I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pinch them back like you suggest. We don't even have our garden started yet!! NOTHING! All that's been done so far in that area is I've picked out the spot where I want it to go!

As for the beans, I'm not too worried about them. I have plenty more seeds. I wanted to get some going early and after two weeks start another batch, so I have a rotation going. I love fresh veggies. I also juice a lot ... hence all the kale and spinach.

I do have empty plugs in the original tray that I could utilize. Note to self: SINGLE PLANT PER PLUG!!!

I wish I were closer too. I'm in Dallas so I'm approximately 65 miles away - but on the other side of Atlanta, so that translates into 1.5 hour drive.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your help, Arlene. I truly appreciate it!

Another thing to bear in mind, Tori, very soon it's going to be warm enough for lots of your plants to go outside into the garden. I'd jump on getting that space ready asap! Then you'll have a better idea of how many plants you're going to have room for. You have enough for a small farm right now . ..

You need to think about how much space each plant needs when it's grown - a tomato plant needs at least 2ft. by 2ft. but lettuce and spinach can grow 6in. apart. Beans also need to be at least 4in. apart. Be sure to think about watering when making a new bed, and also planting the low-growing things on the south side of the tall things so they are not shading. eg. pole beans go along the north edge of the garden, greens and spinach on the south side..

You have both 'cool season' and 'warm season' veggies started already. Next spring, start the cool season stuff first, and wait a few weeks for the warm season. Here's what that means:

Cool season things are the cabbage relatives - kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower etc. and other greens like your spinach and lettuce. Peas and root veggies like beets, carrots and radishes are also cool season. This means that they like to at least start their lives while the weather is still cool, and they can take some very cold nights as long as it doesn't freeze. The lettuce needs to grow fast in cool weather or it gets bitter and 'bolts' to seed very quickly. You could direct sow those into the garden pretty soon.

Warm season veggies need the soil to be warm to grow well. Tomatoes, peppers, beans etc. are going to be a few weeks longer before you'll want to put them out. This winter has been so crazy and I know we got cold weather just days ago where you are, but you know how fast it can warm up, too! As Arlene said about the beans, it's best to direct sow them too, as they grow so fast you sort of put in the seeds then jump back! Not worth trying to get a 'jump' on the season with beans.

Your herbs, chamomile, lavender, hyssop and oregano will probably be perennial plants for you so choose a spot where you can leave them in, when you want to clean up the rest of the veggie area for winter. Lots of people grow those in the flower beds instead of in the veggie garden for that reason. Or in large pots near the door to your kitchen is another great place for herbs!

Heck, where I come from originally 1 1/2 hours drive is nothing! We may be able to make this work yet.

LOL, I think Tori has enough for at least a medium-large farm!!

I start beans indoors, but that's because I live in the far north... Tori, you will have some beans to put out early, and you can also try direct sowing some -- that's the best way to find out what works for you.

As for the Piggy swap -- this was my first year, although I've known about it for quite a few years, and I am here to tell you it is an absolute blast! Please DO consider joining later this year, I guarantee you will be happy you did!

But she actually needs to get her garden space worked up first!

Hi Tori, and welcome to seed-starting!

Don't think of it as a MISTAKE, planting too many seeds too closely together. Think of it as planting a FLAT of seedlings. You cleverly planted them so densely to SAVE ROOM for the first few weeks.

(Now that you need to pot them up to larger pots, it would be nice to have a cold frame or greenhouse to fill. If you don’t have a large enough greenhouse yet, your husband has NO place questioning your seed-starting projects - he should be busy building you bigger greenhouses! Or at least a temporary cold frame.)

Splitting them isn't "recovering from a mistake"! It's the savvy way to select the very best, healthiest seedlings for yourself. (And still have enough healthy left-overs to give potted seedlings to everyone on the block. And if you look up local charity event s and plant sales, over-sowing is even less of a mistake. It's just ambitious preparation for making hundreds of small pots to contribute to that charity event.

If some insane person thinks "you have too many plants", well, that person just doesn't understand gardeners! Besides, there would not BE too many seedlings if SOMEONE was doing his job of making more garden beds for you!

With proper preparation, you have great answers for anyone who wonders why you planted that ENTIRE packet of seeds.

(Next year, you'll know to split that packet 4 ways. Plant one, save one, and trade two. The Hog Wild Piggy Swap is a KIND OF a twelve-step program for seed-a-holics. Very seldom, there, will you hear the phrase "too many seeds".)

1. Buy too many commercial seeds
2. Plant too many commercial seeds
3. Save some commercial seeds for trading
4. Save some of your OWN harvested seeds for trading.
5. Trade for FAR too many more seeds of great variety
6. Repeat steps 2, 4 and 5 with saved and traded seeds
7. Build a larger seed bank for storing ALL THOSE SEEDS you bought, saved and traded for
8. Build more garden beds and cold frames and a greenhouse
10. Learn to propagate rare and fancy hybrids by cuttings and divisions.
11. Trade cuttings and divisions for ever-more rare plants
12. Market rare and valuable plants

Yes, you could sell some of the plants at a farmer's market or a flea market maybe? Or see if there is a local garden club, sometimes they have plant sales to raise money. Good way to meet new gardeners too!

Okay, going to look up where you live now and see how to get there...

Oh my, you are just past Powder Springs. We used to drive up there to get manure. See what I mean about 1 1/2 hour drive is nothing? We'll talk and see what we can work out.

You've already shot past two major obstacles (overwatering and untangling seedlings). The fact that you have so many survivors means that you never fell prey to overwatering. You managed to untangle hundreds of seedlings, and trying to dot hat STILL give me the heebie-jeebies.

Even experienced seed-starters start too many seeds. It is really hard to kill any of them, but think of it as "natural selection". It's smart to start 25-75 inexpensive seeds so that you can keep the 5 best, give away the next 10 or 20, and sacrifice the worst half to two thirds. Selection means that some inexpensive seeds fail the test, and that's just smart gardening.

If you start just 2-3 seeds in each cell, it's bearable to chop 1-2 down if they all germinate. And you just KNOW that, as soon as you start planting 3 seeds instead of 300 in each cell, that germination will drop from 95% down to 20% - seeds are wickedly eager to mess with our heads, I swear!

I use this to cut the extras, but any small scissor works OK. Pulling them out is likely to break the roots of the ones you want to keep. Better to just chop them off at ground level.

(Edited to add the photo.)


"Winter-sowing" enthusiasts have another philosophy that seems to work Ok with flowers. They start way too many seeds in something the size of a gallon milk jug. Then let them grow until the seedlings look like a Chia Pet. When they go to plant them out in the ground, they cut or tear the mass of seedlings into "chunks" - say 4-6 chunks per milk bottle. Then they plant that entire darn Hunk o' Seedlings (called HoS) into the flower garden. They say "the sturdiest seedlings will survive", and their gardens do show dense, healthy growth of flowers packed thickly together.

However, every vegetable I'm familiar with needs room to produce a big, healthy plant. You HAVE TO THIN vegetable seedlings. It's easier to thin them the smaller you start.

If you have some cells with two big, healthy seedlings, and if you have a use for that many plants , you can push the two seedlings out of one cell, untangle those two, return one to the cell, and plant the other in another cell of the same small size, or "promote" one to a 3" pot or 4" pot.

In the interests of enabling and encouraging O. Seed D., here are some places to buy seed-starting "insert trays" (the flimsy, tearable "six-pack cells", plug trays, propagation trays, small pots, etc etc etc.

Greenhouse Mega Store:
Overview:
http://www.greenhousemegastore...

Trays & flats of all kinds - including 10-packs
http://www.greenhousemegastore...

Insert trays incl. DEEP inserts
http://www.greenhousemegastore...

plug tray 10-packs:
http://www.greenhousemegastore...

small pots for seedlings:
http://www.greenhousemegastore...


Growers Solution

Containers, etc:
http://www.growerssolution.com...

Insert Trays: 6-packs etc (flimsy & tearable but convenient)
http://www.growerssolution.com...

Sturdy plug & propagation trays with small cells:
http://www.growerssolution.com...

Rick. I'm waiting to see how much acreage Tori has, and how much they can get tilled up in time to plant all those seedlings . . . Luckily it sounds like they are young and energetic.

Tori, by the time you get a greenhouse built, all those seedlings will need to be out in the garden anyway, Dig, kids, Dig!!!

Leave the greenhouse project for next winter. Unless you have space somewhere for one of the little plastic zip-up ones.

A couple of years ago I did the "overplanting in cells" thing with some petunia seeds I had saved... (hey, who knew they would germinate so well??)



Those things are really easy to pull out and transplant... I took up small chunks with a steak knife (LOL, use what you have, right?) and put into more 6-packs, and probably could have had 50 flats of petunias if I had split them all up. If you're reasonably careful, most things can be moved around... even the things "they" say you shouldn't transplant. But sometimes it is just a lot more sensible to thin them out!!

For "pricking out" seedlings and untangling them, I use a cocktail fork (not sure what it is properly called: "shrimp-cocktail-fork"?) and also a dinner fork where I cut off one tine and bent the other three around to make a "cradle" for seedlings.

Goodwill and Salvation Army have lots of things a gardener can use.

I've read that coarse vermiculite is the easiest thing to untangle seedling roots from.

Ha ha! I'm just in the process of doing this same thing with some Lavatera trimestris seeds I planted. They were old and had spent the summer baking in my greenhouse, so I soaked them all and planted them in a peat pot tray, with many seeds in each pot. Now when I tried to grow just a few last year, not one came up. This year? I think every seed germinated!

And of course, these aren't supposed to like being transplanted. So I emptied out one cell, teased them apart and potted them up a couple of days ago. I ended up with 8 plants from that one cell, and they all are looking fine so far. Heh, anyone need a few white lavatera?

woofie said: Heh, anyone need a few white lavatera?

I have a few seedlings started, but if they fail I'll snap your extras up right quick, Woofie!

Great going, BTW!

dyzzypyxxy said:Another thing to bear in mind, Tori, very soon it's going to be warm enough for lots of your plants to go outside into the garden. I'd jump on getting that space ready asap!

I know!! I know!!! DH said he was goign to start on it this past weekend, but he worked on other projects and wore himself out.

dyzzypyxxy said:Then you'll have a better idea of how many plants you're going to have room for. You have enough for a small farm right now . ..

OH NOOO!!! LOL!! I guess it's a good thing we have three acres!! I'd better plan accordingly. Nothing like jumping in without a plan. [We need a smiley that's smacking itself in the head!]

dyzzypyxxy said:You need to think about how much space each plant needs when it's grown - a tomato plant needs at least 2ft. by 2ft. but lettuce and spinach can grow 6in. apart. Beans also need to be at least 4in. apart. Be sure to think about watering when making a new bed, and also planting the low-growing things on the south side of the tall things so they are not shading. eg. pole beans go along the north edge of the garden, greens and spinach on the south side..

Dang! That's a lot of good info that I never would have thought of. Imagine that!! I truly AM a Garden Goober!! lol.

dyzzypyxxy said:You have both 'cool season' and 'warm season' veggies started already. Next spring, start the cool season stuff first, and wait a few weeks for the warm season. Here's what that means:

Cool season things are the cabbage relatives - kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower etc. and other greens like your spinach and lettuce. Peas and root veggies like beets, carrots and radishes are also cool season. This means that they like to at least start their lives while the weather is still cool, and they can take some very cold nights as long as it doesn't freeze. The lettuce needs to grow fast in cool weather or it gets bitter and 'bolts' to seed very quickly. You could direct sow those into the garden pretty soon.

Warm season veggies need the soil to be warm to grow well. Tomatoes, peppers, beans etc. are going to be a few weeks longer before you'll want to put them out. This winter has been so crazy and I know we got cold weather just days ago where you are, but you know how fast it can warm up, too! As Arlene said about the beans, it's best to direct sow them too, as they grow so fast you sort of put in the seeds then jump back! Not worth trying to get a 'jump' on the season with beans.

Thank you for taking the time to explain all of this. I really appreciate it. I need to print this out and study it!!

dyzzypyxxy said:Your herbs, chamomile, lavender, hyssop and oregano will probably be perennial plants for you so choose a spot where you can leave them in, when you want to clean up the rest of the veggie area for winter. Lots of people grow those in the flower beds instead of in the veggie garden for that reason. Or in large pots near the door to your kitchen is another great place for herbs!

Another great idea. I may start an herb garden closer to the house. Now all I have to do is put a fire under hubby's butt!

abhege said:Heck, where I come from originally 1 1/2 hours drive is nothing! We may be able to make this work yet.

Weedwhacker said:LOL, I think Tori has enough for at least a medium-large farm!!

OH MY GOSH!!! LOL!!! My husband is going to plant ME in my garden!! LOL!!

Weedwhacker said:I start beans indoors, but that's because I live in the far north... Tori, you will have some beans to put out early, and you can also try direct sowing some -- that's the best way to find out what works for you.

I only planted a few... well, okay a bunch, but not ALL of them because I figured I'd direct sow at least half of them.

Weedwhacker said:As for the Piggy swap -- this was my first year, although I've known about it for quite a few years, and I am here to tell you it is an absolute blast! Please DO consider joining later this year, I guarantee you will be happy you did!

I checked out the link. I'm definitely interested. Just what I need ... MORE SEEDS!!!

abhege said:But she actually needs to get her garden space worked up first!

RickCorey said:Hi Tori, and welcome to seed-starting!

RickCorey said:Don't think of it as a MISTAKE, planting too many seeds too closely together. Think of it as planting a FLAT of seedlings. You cleverly planted them so densely to SAVE ROOM for the first few weeks.

RickCorey said:(Now that you need to pot them up to larger pots, it would be nice to have a cold frame or greenhouse to fill. If you don’t have a large enough greenhouse yet, your husband has NO place questioning your seed-starting projects - he should be busy building you bigger greenhouses! Or at least a temporary cold frame.)

Well, if he doesn't get busy on the garden, I've been eyeing this...GreenHouse I also have a bunch of old windows that I picked up for free YEARS ago for the purpose of building cold frames for just a time as this! I keep reminding him that we need to build them. That shouldn't take long, but we have to drive two hours north to get them out of our barn.

RickCorey said:Splitting them isn't "recovering from a mistake"! It's the savvy way to select the very best, healthiest seedlings for yourself. (And still have enough healthy left-overs to give potted seedlings to everyone on the block. And if you look up local charity events and plant sales, over-sowing is even less of a mistake. It's just ambitious preparation for making hundreds of small pots to contribute to that charity event.

I like your perspective!!

RickCorey said:If some insane person thinks "you have too many plants", well, that person just doesn't understand gardeners! Besides, there would not BE too many seedlings if SOMEONE was doing his job of making more garden beds for you!

lol.

RickCorey said:With proper preparation, you have great answers for anyone who wonders why you planted that ENTIRE packet of seeds.

Yeah, really! "I just wanted to feed my community! What's wrong with that?!!"

RickCorey said:(Next year, you'll know to split that packet 4 ways. Plant one, save one, and trade two.

Ahhhhh! Is THAT how you do it!! What a concept?! I obviously should have gotten on ATP BEFORE I started my seeding project!! LOL!

RickCorey said:The Hog Wild Piggy Swap is a KIND OF a twelve-step program for seed-a-holics. Very seldom, there, will you hear the phrase "too many seeds".)

1. Buy too many commercial seeds
2. Plant too many commercial seeds
3. Save some commercial seeds for trading
4. Save some of your OWN harvested seeds for trading.
5. Trade for FAR too many more seeds of great variety
6. Repeat steps 2, 4 and 5 with saved and traded seeds
7. Build a larger seed bank for storing ALL THOSE SEEDS you bought, saved and traded for
8. Build more garden beds and cold frames and a greenhouse
10. Learn to propagate rare and fancy hybrids by cuttings and divisions.
11. Trade cuttings and divisions for ever-more rare plants
12. Market rare and valuable plants

LOL!!

Thanks Rick. Very clever and funny post!!