I ordered tomato seeds this year myself from Baker Creek. They sure do have some fascinating varieties.

SunSugar is nice and sweet, you should love that one. Black Cherry tastes great but no where near as sweet as SunSugar.

Sun Sugar is a great one!

Welcome to All Things Plants, ReesaAnne!

Those Blue Berry tomatoes are really pretty -- for the record, though, they're open pollinated, not hybrids (I believe that all the seeds sold by Baker Creek are OP, actually).

Oh that's good to know, I'm never sure which variety are hybrids verses heirlooms or what even an OP is. I'm still learning :)
Sounds like SunSugar is a winner

ReesaAnne said:Oh that's good to know, I'm never sure which variety are hybrids verses heirlooms or what even an OP is. I'm still learning :)
Sounds like SunSugar is a winner :)

It can be confusing! Heirlooms are never hybrids, they're always "open pollinated" -- which means that planting seeds will give you plants that have the same characteristics as the parent plant, assuming that either the plant or the flowers of the plant were isolated from cross pollination. Hybrids, on the other hand, are a deliberate cross of varieties, which results in a new variety that will not produce seeds with the same characteristics as the parent plant. (sometimes they don't produce seeds at all, or the seeds aren't fertile) (of course, you can also get an "accidental" hybrid -- but the commercial types that are available are deliberate crosses)

If that isn't already confusing enough, not all open pollinated varieties are "heirlooms." New open pollinated types are still being developed the "old-fashioned way," by growing a lot of plants of the same variety, selecting plants with the desired traits, collecting seeds from those plants, and repeating for multiple growing seasons, until a stable variety is achieved.

And, of course, we live in the age of "genetic modification," which is a whole separate story...

Weedwhacker said:

It can be confusing! Heirlooms are never hybrids, they're always "open pollinated" -- which means that planting seeds will give you plants that have the same characteristics as the parent plant, assuming that either the plant or the flowers of the plant were isolated from cross pollination. Hybrids, on the other hand, are a deliberate cross of varieties, which results in a new variety that will not produce seeds with the same characteristics as the parent plant. (sometimes they don't produce seeds at all, or the seeds aren't fertile) (of course, you can also get an "accidental" hybrid -- but the commercial types that are available are deliberate crosses)

If that isn't already confusing enough, not all open pollinated varieties are "heirlooms." New open pollinated types are still being developed the "old-fashioned way," by growing a lot of plants of the same variety, selecting plants with the desired traits, collecting seeds from those plants, and repeating for multiple growing seasons, until a stable variety is achieved.

And, of course, we live in the age of "genetic modification," which is a whole separate story...

So true this business of OP or not is very confusing. And these days there seem to be a fair number of newly created tomato varieties that modern breeders are working on. I guess those are all OP but heck, I am not sure!

So I was looking up that pretty tomato variety, Blue Berries and I see it is one by Brad Gates of Wild Boar Farms. He is one of today's modern tomato breeders.

Just look at all these unusual beauties-
http://shop.wildboarfarms.com/...

I just ordered Sweet Icicle and Big Sungold Select. I couldn't resist.

If I look I know I'll be tempted!

pirl said:If I look I know I'll be tempted!

Go look!!!

I just can't do it. I still have boxes of seeds from prior years. I should scatter them at the edges of the few open land parcels out here.

Last night I did bring in 4 Red Rose tomatoes but they're not really red yet. My own fault for where I planted them. I wouldn't blame the tomato.

pirl said:I just can't do it. I still have boxes of seeds from prior years. I should scatter them at the edges of the few open land parcels out here.

Last night I did bring in 4 Red Rose tomatoes but they're not really red yet. My own fault for where I planted them. I wouldn't blame the tomato.

Well, okay if your determined to be good.

ReesaAnne, I'm about 30 miles South of you!

I can see Rita doing a Hostile take over of her neighbors yards so she can plant all of her tomato plants next spring!

Love the "hostile takeover", Tom!

Me too. I think it is an excellent idea. One of my neighbors has way too much sunny lawn.

Uh oh... I sense Rita is going to be ordering more seeds now

Weedwhacker said:Uh oh... I sense Rita is going to be ordering more seeds now

If only I really could use some of that lawn!!!

Just start gradually "encroaching" on their yard... maybe they won't notice!

Or, get your village to make your street one way, so you can use the entire lane in front of your home as an extension of your tomato garden.

pirl said:Or, get your village to make your street one way, so you can use the entire lane in front of your home as an extension of your tomato garden.

Weedwhacker said:Just start gradually "encroaching" on their yard... maybe they won't notice!

They are big lawn and nothing much else kinda people. Seems like they wouldn't much like tomato plants. However, they did love the actual tomatoes I shared this summer.

I wrote a wordy article one day, distinguishing between two different ways of using "OP".

I did mention in passing why one meaning of "OP" is the opposite of "hybrid" or "F1".

http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...

Seed catalogs and (I think) most people use "OP" to refer to a variety that has become genetically stable through traditional breeding (select, select, select, and then weed out the rogues for 7 plant generations).

If it has been stable for more than 50-75 years (and maybe there is some nice family story to go along with it), an OP variety can be called an heirloom variety. If people took the trouble to keep it stable for several human generations, SOMEONE thought it was a great variety for SOME climate or taste.

It's true that you can't be sure WHAT you'll get if some cool F1 hybrid [pollinates it self and you save the F2 seeds. "Like Parent1", "like Parent2", "worst traits of both" and a blur of intermediate traits are all possible.

But one person pointed out that at least the F2 generation is more consistent than the F3.

And someone else pointed out that SOME F1 varieties actually come pretty darned true in the F2 generation! You just have to try to find out.

So now I think the best advice for saving F2 seeds from F1 crosses is: "Good luck! Try it and see, then write back and let us know."