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Mar 28, 2016 2:28 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Fall leaves are a fantastic resource for the garden. Many ways to use them.

I am too lazy to do anything but pile them on top of the beds and let the earthworms help to turn them into the greatest soil.

I was thinking of next fall possibly pilling the leaves on even thicker in the backyard veggie bed and then simply adding a thin layer of compost on top. Leave it to mother nature to break it all down.
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Mar 28, 2016 4:54 PM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
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drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Mar 28, 2016 7:39 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
A few years back we had so many leaves/lawn clippings that DH kept piling onto the garden (which is about 25 x 75 feet), that they came nearly to my knees... that was when I was still roto-tilling, and I was really skeptical that I would ever get it all worked into the soil. However, after tilling a couple of times in the fall, by spring there was almost no evidence that all that stuff had ever been there (and the worms were really happy!).
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
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Mar 29, 2016 1:38 AM CST
Name: Judy
Simpsonville SC (Zone 7b)
Peonies Plant and/or Seed Trader I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 1
What I usually do in fall/winter is put a layer of cardboard over garden soil, water then pile on leaves, water, then newspaper, water, chicken manure, water, newspaper, leaves, water, coffee grounds, newspapers topped by old garden soil from pots. It's called lasagna gardening because of the layers. But this fall too busy so I just threw on chicken manure and leaves in spring, it's looking great. No tilling or turning. Fluffy soil. Happy veggies.
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Mar 29, 2016 9:01 AM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Thing is there is really no wrong way. Tilling in works, pilling on top works. The soil becomes richer and plants just love it.
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Mar 29, 2016 5:42 PM CST
Name: Cayuga
Massachusetts (Zone 6a)
@Weedwhacker I get coffee grounds from a local coffee store. I have been throwing them into my compost heap along with leaves & garden stuff.....then turning the pile, etc. It seems to take forever to decompose. Like, what I put on the compost heap in summer is finally ready next spring. Is there a faster way? Can I put coffee grounds directly into the spring soil without burning plants?
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Mar 29, 2016 5:52 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Cayuga, someone else may have more experience with using the coffee grounds, but I don't think there's any danger of burning your plants with them (unless they're still hot from the coffee pot Hilarious! ). I believe a bigger concern with using "fresh" organic material directly on the garden (rather than composting it first) is that as the material breaks down it can tie up nitrogen to some extent. I'm not sure just how big a concern that actually is -- I've never noticed a problem from it myself. I should also add that when I say "fresh organic material," I don't mean manure -- most types should be allowed to compost before putting them on your garden.
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Mar 29, 2016 6:56 PM CST
Name: Judy
Simpsonville SC (Zone 7b)
Peonies Plant and/or Seed Trader I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 1
heres a tip that for speeding up compost. I dump out the plastic garbage bins that i use for compost, then wearing gloves i start with the new, drier material that was on top and toss it back in by the handful, adding more nitrogen rich goodies like coffee grounds and veggie trimmings feom kitchen. when bin is refilled its gotten aerated and mixed up, add more water and pile will heat up again.
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Mar 29, 2016 7:39 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I agree that mixing "greens" with "browns" will make both decompose faster.

I'm surprised that a compost heap with lots of coffee grounds doesn't heat right up and decompose fast. Do you have "browns" t6o balance the coffee grounds "greens"? Or are some of your raw materials woody and coarse? I would have thought that coffee grounds mixed with almost anything chopped up small, would decompose really fast.

Maybe screen the big and woody stuff out of your compost heap and put that into a second, slow heap. Call it "hugelculture" if it breaks down really slowly. But harvest your coffee grounds and small, soft "browns" ASAP.

Coffee grounds are good to mix into soil even if not composted first. they are "greens", meaning they have more Nitrogen than is needed by microbes to digest them. Thus they would contribute N to the soil if mixed in.

I think the only thing to worry about would be if you added huge amounts of grounds - say more than 25% or so. If they were too fine, they might make your soil slow-draining and so water-retentive that you started drowning roots.

That's also the only reason not to use a thin layer of coffee grounds as mulch. (Worms will rise to the surface to eat top-dressed coffee grounds, then tunnel back down into the soil.)

If the grounds are too fine and you put down a thick layer, they may mat down and block air exchange at the soil surface. They might even get so dense that water runs off! So if you have SO many coffee grounds that you can lay down a 2" thick layer, scratch it into the soil enough that there is no dense, soggy matted layer.

Or mix the grounds with an equal amount of paper or sawdust or chopped brown leaves (or twice as much paper?) and compost them first. That SHOULD go fast.

Wood (sawdust), brown leaves, and paper are "browns" meaning they have more C and less N than microbes need to digest it. Thus if you mix much of those into soil without composting them first, they create a "nitrogen deficit" in the soil. Microbes try to digest the "browns". But they use up all the N in them and still have lots of C left over.

(Like eating all the cold cuts out of a sandwich and only having bread left.)

The microbes keep trying to consume all the C in the "browns", and multiply. However, they now have eaten ALL the available N in the soil, and their ability to suck up the last few molecules is much greater than plants' roots' ability. So the plants starve for N and stop growing.

It's hard to defeat nitrogen deficit by adding fertilizer. The microbes can suck up a lot of N really fast. if you try to add SO much high-nitrogen fertilizer that not even rapidly growing fungi and bacteria can suck up ALL of it, you'll probably be adding so much that your higher plants go straight from N deficiency to N toxicity.

There's no such thing as a "nitrogen deficit" when you top-dress with leaves, paper, wood chips or other "browns". Sure, any microbes living in your mulch have more C than they shake a flagellum at, and not enoguh N to thrive, but there are no plant roots in your mulch for them to compete with. All it means is that your mulch breaks down slower when there is no source of N in the mulch.

But long-lasting mulch is a good thing, yes? As long as you were not thinking of it as "sheet composting".
Avatar for Cayuga
Mar 31, 2016 11:41 AM CST
Name: Cayuga
Massachusetts (Zone 6a)
Thanks everybody! Your comments are helpful. It sounds like I can incorporate a thin layer of coffee grounds right on the top of the garden. I also have oodles of not fully decomposed leaves that I can use as mulch as well.....I'm going to have a great garden this year!!!

Ok, another question: for the first time, I planted a cover crop last fall on my veggie garden. It was a mix of seeds, but only one grass like plant has come up. When do I turn it under into the soil? It is still too wet here to plant anything. Do I just let it grow until I am ready to use the beds or do I turn it under now so it can decompose?
Last edited by Cayuga Mar 31, 2016 11:45 AM Icon for preview
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Mar 31, 2016 11:59 AM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Maybe it depends on your soil type. I've always had heavy clay. If you work in clay at all when it is still wet, it loses all soil structure and reverts to soup or pudding, then turns to rock when it dries. It really destroys clay soil to work it when wet. Been there, done that, regretted it.

But reserve judgement until you hear from someone who does cover crops every year.

Probably the "recommended" strategy depends on whether the cover crop was perennial or annual and how it reseeds or sends out runners. I assume it lived through the winter so it won't die off on its own? I assume that you will need to turn it under before it goes to seed, or you might have a lot of "cover weeds" this summer.

P.S. If you can't turn it under yet, but it's gotten very tall, you COULD mow it and use the clippings as mulch or compost makin's.
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Mar 31, 2016 12:15 PM CST
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: Ukraine Dahlias I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Houseplants Tomato Heads Garden Ideas: Level 1
Plant Identifier Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Regarding the coffee grounds - mix them in the soil (or compost) so they don't cake up.
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Mar 31, 2016 1:28 PM CST
Name: Cayuga
Massachusetts (Zone 6a)
thanks @RickCorey. The community garden soil is heavy. I'll keep an eye on the cover crop & wait to turn it over.

Thanks @pirl. I'll turn them in the top few inches.
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Mar 31, 2016 2:01 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I have rain or drizzle all spring. When I want to plant peas earlier than the soil dries out, I have sometimes put plastic over a narrow bed, to divert rain away for a few weeks.
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Mar 31, 2016 2:09 PM CST
Name: Linda
SE Houston, Tx. (Hobby) (Zone 9a)
"Godspeed, & Good Harvest!"
Region: Texas Vegetable Grower Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Master Level Canning and food preservation Gardens in Buckets
Tip Photographer Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Ferns
The one thing I have found to be true about leaves in compost is this: the finer you can chop them up before adding them, the quicker that compost will break down!!!

Also, both unchopped leaves and coffee grinds can form a mat sitting on top of your pile, and will prevent rainwater/water from penetrating to your compost underneath. Make sure both are mixed in adequately... I tip my hat to you.
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Mar 31, 2016 2:55 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
I agree with Rick!!
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Mar 31, 2016 3:19 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Gymgirl said:The one thing I have found to be true about leaves in compost is this: the finer you can chop them up before adding them, the quicker that compost will break down!!! ...


Very true. In my small heap, the "small bits" seem to migrate into the center of the heap while woody twigs, hard stems and whole, thick leaves remain on the outer layer of the heap where they dry out, get no "greens", and stop breaking down. That's why we have to "turn" our heaps every so often, to digest the outer layers.

But it isn't really "turning", is it? More like "turning inside-out" so the woody, dry outer layers wind up on the inside, and the old center, MOSTLY decomposed, becomes the new outer layer.

Sometimes, instead of turning the heap "inside-out" and waiting another month or two, I just pull the outer layers away into a new, smaller heap. I harvest the old inner core and use it, maybe after screening out chunky stuff. I always drop some "active" compost from the center off the old heap onto the top of the new heap and water it in, so the concentrated population of rapidly-growing microbes is mixed with fresh food. I call that "re-inoculating the pile". It might be wasted effort, since all those decomposers are always present on garden tools, dust, leaves, twigs and raindrops. But I like to think that my little interventions make a difference.

Let's see ... I cultivate the soil. I cultivate my compost heap. I cultivate patience. I cultivate sources of empty 5-gallon buckets. Isn't there something else I'm missing? Oh yes, PLANTS! I've got to find time to add some PLANTS to my gardening activities!



Gymgirl said: ... Also, both unchopped leaves and coffee grinds can form a mat sitting on top of your pile, and will prevent rainwater/water from penetrating to your compost underneath. Make sure both are mixed in adequately... I tip my hat to you.


Mixing does speed up decomposition. Almost as much as chopping!

But if for some reason you WANT the grounds and leaves on top of the heap, at least form the top into a shallow "saucer" so that rain will collect in a puddle, and seep into the pile gradually. But a dense layer will still slow down diffusion of oxygen, and a compost heap NEEDS oxygen. Presumably such a "top-sealed" heap would get some oxygen in from the sides.
Avatar for Cayuga
Mar 31, 2016 8:59 PM CST
Name: Cayuga
Massachusetts (Zone 6a)
You guys are helpful. I'll get on my compost pile this spring/summer. See if I can mix it up some & get it composting better.
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Mar 31, 2016 9:00 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I guess I've never had enough coffee grounds that the "matting" was a problem... Shrug!
(just the ones from our own coffee pot)
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Mar 31, 2016 11:04 PM CST
Name: Linda
SE Houston, Tx. (Hobby) (Zone 9a)
"Godspeed, & Good Harvest!"
Region: Texas Vegetable Grower Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Master Level Canning and food preservation Gardens in Buckets
Tip Photographer Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Ferns
I can collect up to 60 lbs. of grounds a week here...I have to mix them in.

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