Maurice's link is wood mulch not pine fines. Pine fines are very tiny pieces.

At this site, http://www.ohiomulch.com/produ... it indicates that pine fines are
"Mini Pine Fines are very small, fingernail size pieces of pine bark that are brownish in color and used primarily as a soil amendment."

The homedepot description is,
"These Pine Bark Mulch is screened for a uniform size. It can be used as either a top dressing or tilled into the soil as a conditioner. It helps to loosen the soil for easier weeding. It can also help promote root growth by allowing for better water and air flow.
•Density supports vegetative growth within mulch
•Particulate size range from dust to 5/8 square inches"

I think that they are about nearly the same size and basically can be used in the same way.

Those look like they would be great for clay soil, which I have and I have a Home Depot very near by. Thanks.

Maurice - That first link to Home Depot Wood Mulch does not look like pine fines to me. I've never seen sticks in what I buy labeled pine fines. The pieces in the HD photo look like smaller pieces of mulch, but not pine fines. I find that pictures are often hard to make a determination without actually seeing the product with my own eyes.

I've never seen pine fines sold here at my local HD. So maybe it is but not sold here in Sebastian, FL.

I suspect that the size of what is sold as any mulch depends on the company creating the mulch as bark can be ground and passed through sieves of many different sizes even when described as "fine".

This website http://www.hortmark.com/pine-b... indicates,
"Aged Pine Bark Fines are made to a smaller size - we process it to 1/2" for special uses. Landscapers use Aged Pine Bark Fines as decorative mulch around small plants such as annuals and perennials.

Many horticulturists use Aged Pine Bark Fines as a soil conditioner. Used as a topdress or incorporated directly into soil mixes, Aged Pine Bark Fines makes a stable, long lasting soil conitioner."

This one, http://greendellmulch.com/prod... indicates,
"Pine Bark Fines Mulch", "This mulch consists of bark from pine trees and has a particle size of approximately 3/4”. Pine mulch is recommended to use around plants that require a high acidic environment and may also be used as a soil amendment."

This one, http://lowe-products.com/produ... indicates,
"Our pine fines mulch is an all bark product which is aged through composting. It is then processed through a 3/8″ screen. It is 100% natural with no additives which could harm the environment or humans. This product is an excellent soil amendment and potting medium."

Three different maximum sizes for pine fines of 3/4", 1/2" and 3/8" from three different companies. I expect that there may be other companies that grind their pine fines to smaller maximum sizes.

Hmm, I have seen bags of pine bark at the garden centre over here, but the pieces of bark are a LOT bigger...
I will have to look around to see if I can find anything similar to what you are using

Great article about the grow shelves, Becky! Looks véry professional
They do sell all kinds of growing lamps etc over here, but I'm not sure how much (many?) Lumen DL's need..
And what do you mean by "one cool light and one warm light"?



Mayo

spunky1 said:Pat during the winter everything gets a liquid fertilizer at least every two weeks, I can do this because we normally have very few freezing temps over the winter. Also those boxes and the beds have slow release and chicken litter tilled in before planting, and is also applied to the top after planting. Here the preparation before planting is more important than what's done after planting, I don't want them to slow down.

I have not noticed Pam's problem here.

Thanks Fred, I had not considered fertilizing over the winter. In my area we do get freezing temps occasionally in January and February, but I like the idea of liquid fertilizer in the winter.

Mayo - "one cool light and one warm light" ... back when I converted those shelves you could buy warm lights and cool lights. I bought one of each for each shop light fixture. I had read that using one of each per shop light would cover the grow spectrum. It seemed to work as I had very good success using those lights as you can see in the photos. I didn't grow daylilies though at that time, I grew Japanese Morning Glories and some other plants.

I have since added two shelves to a south window which is where I now grow my WINTER daylily seedlings. The sun comes through the window a little too bright and hot, so I use sheer curtains against the window in front of the shelves to filter the light coming through to the plants. It works perfect. I am sure the grow shelving unit would also work very well if I was still using it.

The room I had as my grow room was a spare empty room which has been converted into a playroom for my two granddaughters. (That is why the grow shelving units for plants is no longer being used and are back out in my garage as storage shelves once again.)

When the boxes are filled with bark for the first time I add 10% sand or about 3/4", the box is 9.50" deep. I add lime, alfalfa pellets, chicken litter (3-2-3) and slow release (16-4-8). I have done this so long I measure nothing. I till to mix everything and start planting. After planting I top dress with everything I tilled in the box except I do not add any more lime. When I order bark I order 60 yards because of the shipping, it cost the same to ship 10 yards as 60 yards.

Thank you so much, Fred!

So basically, it is almost all pine fines with approx. 10% sand?

When I filled my newest raised bed, I used pine fines and bagged top soil at about the same percentage as you use. When I transplanted each daylily into the raised bed, I also added all the potting mix (in it's pot) into the hole with each daylily. I had mixed in alfalfa, milorganite, and worm compost in the pine fines. A week later I watered everything with MiracleGro. I see new leaves and even some new fans on my plants. They were all planted in the new raised bed on Oct. 4th. I was hoping I did it right.

I remembered about the high acidity of pine fines, so I sprinkled some lime in also (before adding the plants). And to top it off, I threw in some big, fat earth worms that I had found in another bed I was amending.

I add lime as well, but It looks like Im adding too much sand.

The sand is only to keep the pine bark from matting so it will drain, to much sand will not hurt anything. When I first started I was mixing it 50-50, every thing grew well, I just couldn't pick up the pots with one hand, they were so heavy the black pots would tear if I wasn't careful. I have been messing with daylilies since the early 90s and I am still in the learning curve.

I add a 50lb bag of sand to a big bag of pine fines, Id have to look at the cu. ft,. You can hardly see the sand in it, so Im good. Heck, whatever, my daylilies had there best year with it. Also, when I got to my new lilies this week, the ones I planted in the mix, They had not pulled down, or to any noticeable extent.

Interesting about the sand. I do see some slight matting down of the pine fines, but mine aren't the finest pine fines and are very easily moved with my fingers, so I think it also makes it easier for the roots to expand. I do know one thing, I just planted up my newest bed and it had all the goodies in the bed before adding the plants. After only a few weeks, all the daylilies have put up new leaves and some have new fans coming up! And of course, Zoe Allegra bloomed. (She was acquired on 9/25/2015 and potted up for abut a week before being planted into this new bed on 10/4/2015.) So I must have done something right! I do love pine fines as a planting medium and so do the plants!

Finished the lining out yesterday, 99.9% are double or triple fans to be put on the lily auction starting early Nov.

Eyes wide open

I'll just keep dreaming..

Mayo

About being pulled down, makes me glad we have lots of clay. No matter how much i amend the soil i always leave some clay. Never tried to grow in pots but sounds interesting.