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Jul 4, 2018 9:28 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
I chose "Stem, scape, stalk or bark" for this image because cacti do not have thorns, and there was no option for spines or areoles.
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Jul 4, 2018 9:46 AM CST
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
The database does not discriminate between thorns and spines. If you look at the entry for this plant you will see it is marked "thorned".
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Jul 4, 2018 9:48 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Ah. That's really imprecise. It's still actually a picture of the stem, anyway. I wish there was more than one choice because many of the plants I have submitted are a picture of several things at once but not the entire plant.
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Jul 4, 2018 10:17 AM CST
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
I seriously doubt many gardeners would be concerned about the difference between spines and thorns (and prickles, depending on your country of origin). Your picture is fine as a shot of the stem, but it seems more appropriate to me in the thorn/spine/prickle category.
Last edited by Baja_Costero Jul 4, 2018 10:32 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 4, 2018 12:10 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
I agree, most people consider plant Spines, Thorns, Prickles, Teeth, the same thing because they are sharp and all serve the same purpose. The following definition is worded almost exactly the same at a few sites; Wikipedia, Revolvy, etc.:

~ In plant morphology, thorns, spines, and prickles, and in general spinose structures (sometimes called spinose teeth or spinose apical processes), are hard, rigid extensions or modifications of leaves, roots, stems or buds with sharp, stiff ends, and generally serve the same function: physically deterring animals from eating the plant material. ~

Since Cacti spines are borne from areoles, they'd probably be placed in the same category as Thorns. I do see both areoles and spines in your photo but only a small amount of the stem. To my eyes, the appropriate gallery would be Thorns, with a notation in the caption area saying "Spines emerging from areoles."
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Jul 4, 2018 12:13 PM CST
Name: Thijs van Soest
Tempe, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
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I am with Jack on this, those cacti do not have thorns. It irritates me enormously to see the 'thorned' entry for cacti. This website/organization is incredibly picky about what cacti are legitimate to add in to the database and appear to require quite high standards for entry of plant info, so they should want to get this right too. Really annoys me.

It is like me writing in all the Rose entries that they have spines... Rose people would blow up at that.
It is what it is!
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Jul 4, 2018 12:14 PM CST
Name: Thijs van Soest
Tempe, AZ (Zone 9b)
Region: Arizona Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Xeriscape Adeniums Hybridizer
Plant Identifier Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
But spines and thorns are not the same thing at all.
It is what it is!
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Jul 4, 2018 12:18 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Thank you. You are correct.

Spines are highly modified leaves. They are immediately and obviously different from thorns (or prickles) if you know what you're looking at.

The term "spinose structures" would cover all of them, but "thorns" covers only thorns.
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Jul 4, 2018 12:24 PM CST
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
I think everyone in this conversation is aware that spines and thorns are not the same. I doubt most gardeners would care. It makes zero difference for the care, handling, or placement of the plant.

What would be better then? "Thorns/spines"? How do we improve this feature of the database?

I'm all ears!
Last edited by Baja_Costero Jul 4, 2018 12:30 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 4, 2018 12:25 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
No, they are not the same thing but I guess the database here only has the one category for placing photos of a plants thorns, spines, prickles, teeth. Maybe it could be changed to just that?

We have a category for: Stem, Scape, Stalk, Bark. Maybe we need one that reads:
Thorns, Spines, Teeth, Prickles.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Jul 4, 2018 12:29 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
I just submitted a proposal on the Plant Database Forum, asking if the category "Thorns" can be changed to read, Thorns, Spines, Prickles, Teeth: The thread "Database category suggestion" in Plant Database forum
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


Image
Jul 4, 2018 12:29 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Jai or Jack
WV (Zone 6b)
Om shanti om.
Region: West Virginia Container Gardener Multi-Region Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Zinnias
Gardens in Buckets Annuals Houseplants Plant and/or Seed Trader Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
I'm glad other people see things the way I do. Smiling

In literature I have seen these plant structures collectively referred to as "spinose structures." That means "spine or spine like."

But "Thorns, Spines, Teeth, Prickles," would also be accurate.
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Jul 4, 2018 12:41 PM CST
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thank you for starting that thread, Lin. Thumbs up I hate to see people this irritated. Smiling
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Jul 4, 2018 1:15 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
When uploading photos, it can be confusing for some, not knowing which category is appropriate. Changing it to Thorns, Spines, Teeth, Prickles would surely help clarify things.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


Image
Jul 4, 2018 1:29 PM CST
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
I'm all for it. Thumbs up
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