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Avatar for Haitihelper
Sep 17, 2018 10:22 AM CST
Thread OP
GA
I planted my seeds in ziplock bags with perlite and water/hydrogen peroxide. Some germinated but very few. Is there anything else I can do to get the rest to germinate? I paid quite a bit for them.
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Sep 18, 2018 11:55 AM CST
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
Welcome!

I suspect your problem is leaving the seeds in the Hydrogen Peroxide. Soaking hard shelled seeds in Hydrogen Peroxide is a method of chemically scarifying to help break dormancy. But, Hydrogen Peroxide is chemically unstable so when the H2O2 molecule comes apart (when added to water), it rips holes in cell walls. I doubt those seeds will germinate but, you may as well plant them and prove me wrong. Smiling

Mixing seeds with damp sand and putting them in the refrigerator for a couple months will break dormancy and is a lot safer. When I have felt the need to scarify, I rub the seed gently on an emory board a couple times. Or, if you have a lot of seeds, sandwich them between layers of fine sandpaper and rub back and forth a couple times. The purpose is to allow water into the seed without breaking the seed coating.

But I don't think Daylily seeds need to be scarified, only stratified.
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Sep 19, 2018 8:56 PM CST
Name: Larry
Augusta, GA area (Zone 8a)
Daylilies Region: Georgia Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers hot summers
I have never germinated seeds in a plastic bag although I have heard of many that do so successfully so what I am about to say is based on my thoughts, not on actual experience with the method.

I place seeds in a small cup and add only enough of a 9 parts water to 1 part of household hydrogen peroxide to cover them, but more likely enough water to allow the seeds to float. I leave them in very low light at room temperature and check back a couple of days later and daily after that to see if any seeds have germinated. I have read that the water/peroxide solution tends to oxygenate the water and thereby promote germination. Dr. Sue Bergeron who is a regular on this site has run controlled experiments with this method versus plain water and has confirmed that the water-peroxide method does promote seed germination.

I agree that hydrogen peroxide can be a dangerous chemical, but as the concentration decreases, while it still reacts with various materials, it does so much less violently. In the 1960's and before, concentrated H2O2 was used as the oxydizing agent in some rocket motors. However at 3% concentration (which is the concentration of household peroxide) it is quite stable when kept in a dark bottle. It will break down when exposed to light or elevated temperatures. When used in the 9:1 solution mentioned above, the concentration is far below 1%. My first thought when seeing the recommendation that a dilute solution be used to start daylily seeds, I thought it acted as an antibacterial agent, but it has been shown that is not the case.

My questions for you would be:
1. Did you use the dilution rate mentioned above?
2. How much did you put in the bag in relation to the amount of perlite? Was there free 'water' in the bag, or was the perlite only damp? I have heard of people using peat moss or potting mix rather than perlite as those materials absorb moisture and can be "wrung out" so there is no excessive water. However, the color of perlite makes identifying the seed much easier.
3. Where were the bags stored as they waited for germination?
4. What temperatures (approximately) did the bags encounter while they waited?
5. Were the bags exposed to any light - sun, overhead lighting, ambient room lighting, etc. - as they waited?
6. Were the seeds/perlite mixture exposed to air during the wait?
7. How long was it before you saw germination occur?

I do not stratify my seeds prior to germinating and because of that some seeds take much longer to germinate than others. If you extend the germinating time, you may need to guard against mold growing inside the bags depending on the amount of light, the availability of oxygen in the bag and the temperature.
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Sep 19, 2018 9:46 PM CST
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Cat Lover Daylilies Region: Michigan Seed Starter Seller of Garden Stuff Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
I have used the ziplock, perlite and water method (without hydrogen peroxide) and have been quite successful. If I were you, I'd put the packages in the fridge for a week or two, pull them out and try again. I'm guessing the seeds just need a cold/moist treatment.
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
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Sep 20, 2018 5:34 AM CST
Name: Stan
Florida Panhandle (Defuniak Sp (Zone 8b)
Photo Contest Winner 2020 Photo Contest Winner 2019 Region: Florida Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Garden Photography
Keeps Horses Daylilies Lilies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Butterflies
First let me say Welcome! @Haitihelper

Plant all of them...

I will share with you personal opinion for starting daylily seed. OBTW you will get lots of differing opinions here and suggest you use what works best for you.

I soak my daylily seed in a solution such as Larry mentioned above. Usually allowing them to sit in the cups no more than 10 days. Afterward, I then stratify them in the coldest drawer of my fridge. Some place the seed in perlite mix, but I use a dampened towel usually the same liquid the seeds soaked in. Not sopping wet but damp. The seed stay in the fridge for several weeks before they're removed and planted. in some instances, I have experienced some that germinate in the damp towel and others haven't. I usually plant them all anyway. I have planted in potting mix, I have planted in the garden soil outside. Remember that regardless of amount paid or the parents the seed were produced from, not all will be viable. It would be unrealistic to expect 100% germination.

I will also include the below link to an great article written by our very own @beckygardener

https://garden.org/ideas/view/...

Again, just use what works for you and when you seedlings bloom, don't forget to share photo's. Everyone love seedling photos!
Good luck
Stan
(Georgia Native in Florida)
http://garden.org/blogs/view/G...
Avatar for Protoavis
Sep 20, 2018 6:47 AM CST
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
100% germination is unrealistic, not all seeds produced will be viable.

I always find it funny the lengths people go to with seed. I never stratify or use scarification (I see the requirement for either as something to select against, in a generation or two you end up with more seed than you need so why select for things needing special treatment....but I might just be lazy). I just put seeds in a pot and put it outside, always plenty of germination with anything planted, its more seedling care where things go awry at times (like being over zealous with watering...) Although i do live in Australia (no frosts) and i generally stick to evergreens which may or may not be part of the success with the lazy approach, dormants possibly need stratifying.
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Dec 6, 2018 3:06 PM CST
Name: Ed Burton
East Central Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Hybridizing, Lily Auction seed sell
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I plant my seeds in potting trays, direct, moist "not wet" seed starter mix, success rate 90 to 95%
I know lots of folks who start seeds in peroxide/water mix, others in moist paper toweling, but I never really understood the reasoning.
Seeds planted in the starter mix do not need anything extra, and zero chance of the root breakage when planted.
The only reason to pre-sprout in my mind is to see if the seeds were viable.
But if you have good firm seeds to start with, it shouldn't matter.
Also evergreen or semi evergreen sprout fairly fast, hard dormant can take a lot longer is some cases I have seen it take over a month.
Sometimes the easiest way Smiling
Ed Burton

seed seller "gramps"
Last edited by EdBurton Dec 6, 2018 4:25 PM Icon for preview
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Dec 6, 2018 4:34 PM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
I have had lots of seeds take over a month to sprout after being planted in my cups, but I never thought about checking to note if they were dormant or evergreen.
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Dec 6, 2018 5:07 PM CST
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4b)
Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Keeps Horses Dog Lover Daylilies Region: Canadian
Butterflies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Sages Plant Identifier
Daylily seeds from deciduous ("dormant") parents may or may not have seed dormancy even with the same cross and within the same batch. Evergreen species daylilies similarly may or may not have seed dormancy. The exact same seed possibly may or may not have seed dormancy depending on how it is stored and for how long (seed dormancies can "wear off" during prolonged dry storage).

To make a connection with the seed's own foliage habit one would have to note how quickly each individual seed germinated, somehow be able to identify it until it matured, and then note its foliage habit to see if the faster ones to germinate ended up being evergreen. This would also be bearing in mind that the same mature daylily may express a different foliage habit depending on where it is grown.
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Dec 7, 2018 2:24 PM CST
Name: Maurice
Grey Highlands, Ontario (Zone 5a)
Whether a seed is dormant or not is very complicated.
Below is a quote from a recent review.
"[1 degree C is equal to 1.8 degrees F]

"It has been known for more than a century that the mother plant has a significant influence over seed traits, including
seed size, dormancy, and germination. In many species factors such as age of the mother plant, and position of the
seed in the fruit, inflorescence, or canopy can affect seed properties, often accompanied by a dimorphism either of the
seeds themselves or the fruits in which they arise (Roach and Wulff, 1987). In addition to the major effects of the genetics
and developmental characters of the mother plant, the environment during seed production also has a major influence on seed germinability (Fenner, 1991), and this will be the major focus of this review. These environmental effects can be strong, and temperature is the most dominant signal across species, with as little as 1°C differences shown to have important consequences for seed dormancy in sensitive ranges."
https://academic.oup.com/jxb/a...

What does that mean?
It means that the environment that the pod parent experiences both before it is pollinated and while it is producing the seed as well as the environment that the seed experiences while it is developing in the pod have effects on whether the seed will be dormant or not.
That means I might cross cultivar A x cultivar B in my field and the seeds are dormant but someone else might cross cultivar A x cultivar B in their garden and the seeds are not dormant. Or five years from now under different weather conditions I might make the same cross and the seeds are not dormant. Or if I water more next year and provide optimum fertilizer and make the same cross the seeds might not be dormant.
It also means that each person growing daylilies from seed may need to find the best way for their own situation.
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