Viewing post #2540626 by Nightlily

admmad said:
I expect that the explanation for 'Judge Orr' is that it grows continuously during your entire growing season. That would mean that its scapes would appear typically within a fan of leaves but not in the centre of a fan of leaves. To appear outside of a fan of leaves will be rare and depending on the length of your growing season and the timing of 'Judge Orr's flowering may be practically non-existent.

The first scape of the season will be within a fan of leaves that is formed from some number of leaves left over from the last growth cycle of the previous year (which belong to/with the first scape) and some leaves from the next cycle of growth. At some point in the growing season the crown in question will have produced all of the leaves for the next cycle of growth and then it will sprout some leaves of the last cycle of growth (the last fan of the year). A scape will then appear which belongs to the full cycle of growth. It will not be in the centre of the fan of leaves since the visible fan of leaves will be made up of the leaves from the full cycle of growth plus some leaves from the last cycle of growth and any leaves that are still alive from those that belong to the last cycle of the previous growing season (year).

I'm not sure if I understand your explanations completely (my English is far from perfect) but referring to Judge Orr there is no data about the foliage available - I heard that it should be evergreen but in my garden it behaves like something between semi-evergreen and dormant.

admmad said:
Sequence of growth for 'Judge Orr' in your location and with your growing conditions.

scape 1 appears - the fan of leaves is made up a few leaves from the previous growth cycle plus some from the next growth cycle. Scape is not central to all the leaves. The previous growth cycle started in the previous year.

scape 2 appears - fan of leaves is made up of the complete current growth cycle to which this scape belongs plus any leaves still left from the previous growth cycle and those leaves that belong to the next (last) cycle of growth for this year. The rest of the leaves of the last cycle of growth will appear next year along with their scape.

The leaves that grow during one growing season for your location and your growing conditions for 'Judge Orr' belong to three growth cycles. Only one of those is a complete growth cycle and that is associated with the late appearing second scape. The growing point (the shoot apical meristem) of that growth cycle produces all its leaves during the growing season and then becomes reproductive and produces (actually using itself up) the late scape.

In the spring when the first scape appears only a few of the leaves are from its growth cycle and were leaves that had not been produced in the previous year. The rest of the leaves that are present when that first scape appears are for the growth of the late ("rebloom") scape. They were not produced by the same growing point (meristem) that developed into the first scape.

When the last scape appears the few leaves that were from the first scape's growth cycle may or may not be alive. Most of the leaves from the last scapes' growth cycle will be alive and some of the leaves of the next growth cycle will be present.

The growth of the 'Judge Orr' fans in your location and growing conditions is consistently continuous. Its scapes appear within fans of leaves (although each fan may be made up of leaves from more than one growth cycle and would have been produced by different vegetative meristems). When the scapes appear they will not be centrally located within the sets of leaves.

As the plant grows between the fence and other shrubs I can not confirm or falsify your considerations - maybe I will be able to make pictures in fall that will help.

admmad said:
'Brunette' is growing discontinuously. When it sprouts in the spring that is the growth of a meristem that had not sprouted before. The vegetative meristem will produce all its leaves and then become a reproductive meristem. The axillary meristem that replaces the reproductive meristem that is completely used up producing the scape does not grow any leaves. The fan of leaves with its scape is one complete growth unit for 'Brunette' and only one.

If the environmental conditions change enough it is possible that the growth habit of 'Brunette' may also change. Some daylily cultivars switch from growing continuously to growing discontinuously and vice versa easily. I do not know if there are cultivars that cannot switch from growing continuously to growing discontinuously or whether there are cultivars that cannot switch from growing discontinuously to growing continuously. To test that and make valid observations would require growing possible cultivars in several different locations and with several different growing conditions in each location.
Here 'Heavenly Harmony' in some growing seasons grows continuously. in other growing seasons it grows discontinuously. 'Paper Butterfly' here can grow both continuously and discontinuously in the same growing season sometimes. When it has done so, the first growth and scape was continuous and the last growth and its scape was discontinuous. 'Paper Butterfly' does not bloom in some years here and rarely produces two scapes in the same growing season. For it to produce two scapes in a growing season I have to try to optimize its growth (for this location and growing conditions) for two years with extra water and extra fertilizer. The second growing season will be when two scapes appear. The same is true for 'Mosel' here. 'Stella de Oro' also requires the same sort of special effort to produce two scapes in one growing season.

In my garden environment I've never found a discontinuous or continuous growth on daylilies how you describe it. Depending on the special cultivar I have made the following observations:

1) Only a few (older) cultivars start in spring with leaves, continue with scapes, flower then and after flowering the leaves die within weeks - no new ones are produced in fall. Best example for this type is Light the Way
2) Most cultivars start in spring with leaves, continue with scapes, flower then and most of the leaves die quite quickly during the shoot of the second leaves that will stay green and healthy until fall. Some of them flower a second time in fall if the summer is long and warm - but usually I see only one or two rebloom scapes on this plants
3) Many of the very late ones (flowering in August/September/October) here do not produce scapes in spring - they shoot only leaves and this first set of leaves dies when the second one emerges with the scapes somewhere around end of July.
4) Northern rebloomer do also produce 2 sets of leaves - no matter if they have two or three bloom cycles or if they are constant rebloomer.
Usually I remove the spent leaves in August - on all daylilies here - I think I would notice if there is an exception to this rule.

Stella de Oro is not the best northern rebloomer here - but it is planted in a shady place so maybe it could perform better. Usually it flowers between 30 and 50 days each season - Rosy Returns flowers 70-90 days, Stella's Ruffled Fingers 70-110 days.