Clint, I'm sorry to learn that I'm not a true gardener. Dang! All those 50 years I've spent in the garden don't count, the listing of our gardens in the Smithsonian's Archive of American Gardens doesn't count, and the article on our gardens in Country Gardens magazine was for naught. Forever cursed be the Knock Out rose. I am bereft of true gardenership. Alas and alack!