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Apr 28, 2014 12:02 PM CST
Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Plant and/or Seed Trader Spiders! Seed Starter Garden Procrastinator
Peonies Organic Gardener Orchids Irises Hybridizer Composter
I hate it when someone comes in & buys a good business and then destroys it just to make a profit! It seems to be happening more & more. It's getting to the point where you don't know who to trust! I've run into this problem with a few companies I've been buying from for decades. I tend to be loyal to places I like so I've been burned too. Angry
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Jun 24, 2014 6:13 PM CST
Name: Meredith
New Hampshire (Zone 5b)
Region: New Hampshire Cat Lover Butterflies Hummingbirder Keeper of Poultry Roses
Lilies Native Plants and Wildflowers Daylilies Bee Lover Irises Seed Starter
Glad to see this post because I was thinking of ordering it for the orange pink color the picture shows and the catalog describes. Glad I didn't because I only have room for 2 new roses and it looks like the color isn't what I am after. Thanks for sharing!
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Jun 24, 2014 9:47 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
@Zuzu.........

The only two roses that I could find with that bloom form are 'Calico' and 'Livin' Easy', but both seem to be too orange. Do you grow them ? Can you compare the blooms ?

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Jun 24, 2014 10:45 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Yes, Lyn, I have Calico and Livin' Easy. Neither is the same as my Caribbean Breeze. Livin' Easy is quite orange, and Calico is more pink, but it's definitely pink and yellow, whereas my Caribbean Breeze is pale pink with a peach center, fading to cream and peach.

Floribunda Rose (Rosa 'Livin' Easy')

Rose (Rosa 'Calico')

If you're suggesting one of these as the "real" name of my rose, neither fits the bill. J&P typically renames its own roses and probably wouldn't dare rename a Harkness rose (Livin' Easy). Calico is a special case because it's quite difficult to find. In all the years that I was buying roses from Vintage Gardens, they offered Calico only once. I don't think cuttings of Calico root easily. I believe the only other source is UC Davis. It's hard to believe that J&P could have amassed a large enough stock of Calico to offer it for sale.
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Jun 24, 2014 11:31 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
I agree, Zuzu. I went through all of the J & P introductions I could find and old catalog listings that I have on file, but couldn't find a rose that looked at all like your rose. It may actually be a new rose in that when Keith Zary left J & P, it was a pretty acrimonious parting of ways. J & P kept the rights to everything he had in pipeline, so it's very possible this was one of the roses he was testing before he left.

The same is true for any new roses introduced under the Weeks brand name. They are roses Tom Carruth and Christian Bédard had in the pipeline when Weeks went bankrupt.

Yes, I think the new J & P is unethical, but they do own the rights to the roses Zary bred that were still in testing when they purchased the company. 'Carribbean Breeze' may be one of his roses. I don't think it is a renamed rose, but that is just a guess on my part based upon the research I did tonight.

There were a lot of roses that were not a commercial success simply because they were difficult to propagate. Sounds like 'Calico' was one of those roses.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Jun 25, 2014 12:09 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Calico dates back to 1976, long before the own-root rose craze. I think it was a commercial success in its day, just as Patsy Cline, Silk Hat, and many other currently scarce roses were. They grew beautifully as long as they were grafted onto Dr. Huey or some other rootstock, but the only roses left from those days are the ones that will grow well on their own roots or the ones that are still being grafted, such as Arizona, Rio Samba, Double Delight, Perfect Moment, Peace, etc.

I bought Calico and I'm always looking for Patsy Cline and Silk Hat because I remember how beautiful all three were when I grew them in the 1980s. They were grafted roses then, of course, and judging by my experience with Calico, which produces only two or three blooms a year and never grows beyond 12 inches tall, I probably wouldn't be happy with the two others on their own roots either.

Getting back to J&P, the reason I think Caribbean Breeze is simply a renamed rose is that it has no registration name. There's no reason J&P wouldn't have registered all of the Zary roses they inherited, is there? Shazam was one of the roses Zary was testing just before the company changed hands in 2007, and it was registered as JACjosse and entered in competitions in 2008. It was introduced for sale to the public by J&P in 2011. They probably did the same thing with all of Zary's roses.
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Jun 25, 2014 8:39 AM CST
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Salvias Garden Procrastinator Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Charter ATP Member Xeriscape Region: Colorado Roses Cat Lover The WITWIT Badge
forgot how beautiful that Shazam! really is.. haven't seen it locally & I have trepidations about ordering direct from J&P... but can't find Enchanted Evening anywhere else either. Bleh!
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/Tweet...
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Jun 25, 2014 9:24 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
>>>There's no reason J&P wouldn't have registered all of the Zary roses they inherited, is there?

Yeah, there is. The new owners stopped registering and patenting roses once they had full control of the company.

>>>Shazam was one of the roses Zary was testing just before the company changed hands in 2007, and it was registered as JACjosse and entered in competitions in 2008.

You are right. I think 'Shazam' was already in the registration process and already entered into competitions before the new owners took over.

Like I said, it was only a guess on my part that you got one of the roses that was in the pipeline. If that's true, WOW ! Whatever, I think it's a pretty rose.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Jun 25, 2014 1:19 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Toni, you're right to be wary of J&P. Before buying the current one, which is growing well, I had bought three Shazams that failed miserably. I know it wasn't my fault because I bought one of them for Sue, and she couldn't make it grow either. The fourth one is growing well. So, unless you have lots of time and money to waste on buying the same rose over and over until you get a good one, don't bother.
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Jun 25, 2014 1:20 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
I agree
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Jun 25, 2014 2:11 PM CST
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Salvias Garden Procrastinator Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Charter ATP Member Xeriscape Region: Colorado Roses Cat Lover The WITWIT Badge
I remember the disaster I had with J&P a few years back with ordering my mom a Yellow Simplicity hedge .. they shipped 6 roses, all of which promptly died (probably my mom killed them). Called them up, they sent replacements.. half of which bloomed like Dr. Huey!!! It was a big disaster.. but it's also a shame that so many roses aren't available any more... Sad
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/Tweet...
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Jun 28, 2014 7:41 PM CST
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Strangely enough, my Shazam made it through our awful winter. Hopefully, I will get more than a few blooms this summer.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Jun 30, 2014 5:11 AM CST
Name: Joyce
Alamogordo, NM (Zone 7b)
That first bloom shot is a beauty whatever the name! Too bad about J&P. I bought most of my roses from them years ago. This thread reminded me I would love to find Brass Band!
Last edited by Cactuspatch Jun 30, 2014 5:14 AM Icon for preview

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