I stopped using it a few years ago. I'm not sure it ever made a difference.

I use it still. I can see the difference on my daylilies almost immediately. With the roses, not so much. I add other nutrients to the tea, so I can't tell you for sure which part really helps. I think there is good evidence the epsom salts help, and the fish emulsion and superthrive. The alfalfa has a growth hormone but it may be taken up easier by a fleshy daylily root than by a woody rose root.

Alright, chiming in from Central Texas about my experiences with HOT and DRY (all of last year). Since we were on water restrictions, my roses got root soakings once a week. Here's what made it:

Blue Girl: Stunted growth all year, one meager bloom in the spring, but still pulled through and is now 4' tall. (a bagged rose)
Mr. Lincoln: One cane survived the summer. Two blooms in spring. Now 6' tall after our spring rains and new growth from the root. (bagged rose)
DA Evelyn: She was a Chamblees rose. Not sure if own-root or grafted - didn't pay much attention to that. She actually pulled through the summer very well and branched out all over the place this spring.
Caldwell Pink: Grew slowly last year but still flushed a few times and now needs to be pruned hard after the past spring.
Spice: I think this rose actually prefers to be watered sporadically. It grew like a beast this spring but never broke outside it's little 2'x2' window although it did grow to be 4' tall.
Nacogdoches: after my second attempt, the "Yellow Rose of Texas" just does not want to be my friend.

There were some that did not make it, but that was partially my fault for taking so long with my second bed so it was already scorching by the time they made it into the ground. Bad juju. I've replaced with DA Golden Celebratiion, a Belinda's Dream, and DA Abraham Darby.

As for roses in cool damp conditions - in San Francisco, the roses at Golden Gate Park were some of the largest, incredibly fragrant blooms ever, and the roses themselves were impeccable. Saw several of the larger private homes in Russian Hill that had rose bushes (usually a climber) that looked just as healthy as the ones at the park. Some day I'll get around to uploading all the pictures.

FYI - Katy Road Pink is actually Carefree Beauty, the standard for the EarthKind rose trials.

If you want a good rose for heat and humidy, try Quietness. It's one of the few roses that has kept it's foliage this summer in the heat and drought and it's shade-tolerant and very fragrant.

Mary - Of course Quietness would have those features.. it's a Buck's rose! And it's gonna be pretty cold hardy, too! Buck roses are awesome! Just so limited in colors...

to ATP Mary!


Thanks for the tip about Quietness - I'm off to look that one up!

Quietness is the top seller at our club sale every year, mainly because everyone in the club grows it and we all rave about it. It is not only healthy and tolerant or weather extremes--it is also beautiful.

Toni - Of course, Buck roses are awesome but I'm prejudiced - I grew up with them. What color are you looking for? They range in color from ivory white to a red that turns so deep in the heat it's almost black with almost everything in-between. Did you know that Applejack won't bloom in Texas and other areas of the South because it doesn't get cold enough?

That's interesting about Applejack. I don't see it here in California either. Must be for the same reason.

I like some Buck roses more than others. I love the freckled and stippled ones, such as Gee Whiz, Spanish Rhapsody, Malaguena, Freckles, and some others. I also like the ones with a variety of color shades, such as Iobelle, Pearlie Mae, and Distant Drums. The solid-colored ones leave me cold, however, and they seem to grow the largest, unfortunately. Folksinger, for instance, is one of the biggest rose bushes in my garden, but it doesn't add much to the landscape.

Mary - I'm a blue rose kinda gal. the "mauve" family. Secondary is the "orange" family but not apricot. Don't really like the apricot colors. Don't like pink and have very few pink roses in my yards. I do have a few Buck's... actually, now that I think about it, I think I only have 4: Honey Sweet, Golden Princess, Distant Drums, & Hawkeye Belle. I do have Blue Skies on order for 2013 from Palatine (I think Palatine.. either Palatine or Roses Unlimited). I had Musicale, but it didn't survive (was a small rose from Chamblee & it didn't survive my incompetence ). Thinking about getting another one of those.

Just checked.. I don't have Blue Skies on order. I have Blue Nile & Blue River. But no Blue Skies. Huh, wonder why I haven't ordered it yet.

I planted Quietness on a lark in spring of 2011. It's one of those roses that one seems to fall in love with without quite knowing why. It produces a beautiful, even, balanced shrub. It grows at a modest pace, staying free of disease and not bothered too seriously by pests. It produces pale pink roses of nearly perfect form, distributed evenly about the bush and held almost perfectly. They have a subtle but sweet scent. These things seem to work together to make a whole greater than the sum of its parts. It's the first Buck rose to establish in my garden.

Honey Sweet might be out there, too; but if it is, it's hiding beneath taller plants. April Moon, Prairie Star, and Winter Sunset also got planted this season. It feels like I'm starting a collection. Not sure whether it's the right thing to do. I've seen a full grown Folksinger in a county garden when it was in full bloom and while I thought the blossoms were nice and the vase-shaped plant attractive, the whole thing taken together did not do much for me either. In the same garden, Hawkeye Belle, trimmed to two feet in height and grown as a hedge wowed me.

I've enjoyed reading the discussion on different rootstocks. I drank the KoolAid for fortuniana rootstock back in 2008/09 and now regret it. The All America Selections Display Garden at Burden Center (here in Baton Rouge) adopted fortuniana and had planted hundreds of bushes on the rootstock. All the plants demonstrated robust growth and amazing resistance to disease very quickly, so it was a dramatic endorsement for the rootstock here. A few other regional display gardens also added large plantings on fortuniana. After a few years of observing these seemingly superb results, many gardeners in our area jumped on board and began reworking their gardens with fortuniana. Unfortunately, this proved to be a big mistake. Fortuniana is indeed a robust rootstock, but therein lies its problem. Within 4-5 years, the diameter of the fortuniana rootstock drastically outpaces the diameter of the top rose at the graft site. The union begins to crack and the cambium comes loose, causing a disconnect between the roots and the top growth they are supposed to be feeding... so the bush begins a quick decline. This negative process appears to be exacerbated by our high humidity and feast/famine rain patterns. The AAS Display Garden began ripping out all of the fortuniana bushes last year and is still in the process of replacement. They have moved back to own-root and Dr. Huey rootstock.

Many of the bushes in our garden are on fortuniana, with some own-root. For the first four years, the own-root bushes were dwarfed by the fortuniana ones, and the bloom production was significantly lower. They suffered from more diseases and required more TLC in our garden. However, after the four year mark, the fortuniana bushes became the problem plants and the roots on the own-root bushes had finally developed enough to provide adequate nutrients for good growth and bloom production. The fortuniana bushes are beginning to drop, and we are replacing them as they decline. So far, the replacements have been own-root bushes, but I would be happy to find some of our desired cultivars on Manetti to give it a try. I'm not averse to adding plants on Dr. Huey rootstock either, but so far every cultivar I've wanted has only been available as own-root (or fortuniana). The cultivars on fortuniana that have crashed so far are: Sixteen Candles (year three), Angel Face (year four), Mister Lincoln (year four), New Orleans Lady (year four), Paradise (year four), Veterans Honor (year four), Brigadoon (year five), and Pop Warner (year five). Saint Patrick, Fragrant Cloud and Moonstone are all currently flirting with the shovel prune.

Only one of the initial hybrid teas in our garden was own-root... Kolner Karnival (Blue Girl) came from Heirloom seven years ago. It still looks scraggly and is stingy with its blooms. Quite a few of the initial floribundas were own-root, and their performance has been fine. All of our own-root roses have responded very well when they receive more fertilizer, so our new strategy is to provide better nutrients for root production in an effort to eventually build better top production. Even if I end up with a garden full of smaller plants, I believe the end result will be more of what we want *for our particular garden*. We want to find plants that can remain healthy for a longer period of time.

I would like to know if anyone in the Deep South has had success with Manetti rootstock. Are there any mail order nurseries currently offering roses on Manetti?

Long time no see Evey! How are you doing? Haven't seen you in a 1000 years or so!

Yes, welcome back! I have had no experience with Manetti, but I have had an experience similar to yours with roses grafted on Dr Huey. They thrive for 6 - 8 years then decline. The own root roses can be slow to mature but they live forever.

Rugosas are the work horse roses for me.
Do well under most conditions.

Cottage_Rose said:Rugosas are the work horse roses for me.
Do well under most conditions.

I've also noticed that my climbers fare much better than shorter plants. Maybe because their leaves and blooms are up where the air circulation is better?

chelle said:
I've also noticed that my climbers fare much better than shorter plants. Maybe because their leaves and blooms are up where the air circulation is better?

I noticed that with my climbers & winterkill. For the most part, my climbers don't suffer from winterkill half as bad as my other roses. In fact, Purple Splash is about 6' tall already considering everyone else is maybe a foot to 18" tall. Of course, this is totally separate from heat & humidity...

I live in the everlasting sun & warmth of Pacific Northwest. Just kidding! I Our summers (z8a) are relatively mild (it rarely gets to 90 degrees). Last week, we actually had a bit of cold spell and several days with peek-a-book sunshine. Interestingly, most of the roses in my garden have adapted to the short summers, inadequate sunshine and heat. Roses here may not get as large or robust as in the locations with optimal heat, but they still perform well.

When I began rose gardening a few years ago, I committed the typical newbie blunder of purchasing mass produced roses that do not suit our climate zone. I discovered the local rose society shortly thereafter. They helped me through the process of learning to choose roses that are best-suited for 8a. Needless to say, most of the roses purchased from local nurseries perished, and the own-root ones from Ashdown, EuroDesert and Roses Unlimited are the ones that thrive in my garden.

- Reem

Hi, Reem. to ATP!

Most of the roses here are budding up again, but I've had one that's bloomed nonstop since shortly after the last frost...and it's a grocery store mini. I find that amusing because I actually thought it wouldn't survive the less than ideal treatment I gave it, let alone bloom its head off.