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Jul 28, 2010 12:42 PM CST
Name: Jamie R
Zone 5b, WI (Zone 5a)
save the rainforest & habitat
Herbs Butterflies I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Wisconsin
Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bulbs Irises Roses Lilies
Thank you Vicki, I will look at your site, just having a busy week. Toni, yes, I remember that you have had luck (and recall your winter and spring this year). I am having good luck with some 'knock outs' that I bought at a local nursery here but of the own root varieties that I bought through the rose coop, from Chamblee's, only the Buck roses survived (and they were rather dissappointing). I will mulch heavily, but am thinking that local nursery's might be better for selecting from at least for the rest of this year. i do want to get a few more in during the next week or so so they have time to get a foothold.
Woman on the eastbound train
...........................................Je Suis Désolé.
(also a mule lovin', Charley huggin' girl)
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Jul 28, 2010 1:40 PM CST
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Salvias Garden Procrastinator Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Charter ATP Member Xeriscape Region: Colorado Roses Cat Lover The WITWIT Badge
If I may suggest, Roses Unlimited (http://www.rosesunlimitedownro...) for own-root roses. I ordered a small order last year (shipping is a ouch-factor), but their roses all survived my horrific winter I went through this past year (09-10). I only lost one of their roses and that was due to my own incompetence. Their roses are beautifully shipped (check out this thread I started earlier this summer http://cubits.org/roses/thread...), I just love this place! Now for the con - they don't do online ordering, they run out of stock quickly, and they don't take credit cards/paypal. I hate sending checks in the mail as I don't trust the USPS (next year when I order, I'll get a money order & ship it FedEx.. it'll be worth the piece of mind). I would also recommend going to the big-boxes that have a 1 year warranty for now until you (and me!) get more experienced.

You can also do the "Minnesota Tip", which is to dig a trench along side the rose, slightly dig up the rose, and tip it over into the trench and cover it with about a foot of soil. But that's way too much like work for me, which is why I do the mulch. What I have done in the past, and may do this year, is get a TON of those black buckets that roses come in at the big boxes, cut the bottoms off, gently work this over the rose, and fill completely with mulch. I think you can use hay for this too, which would decompose nicely and start the fertilization for next year. That way you don't lose as much to winterkill (blackened canes).
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/Tweet...
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Jul 28, 2010 1:49 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
The trouble with buying from the big box stores is that they tend to stock the same plants all over the country and do not cater to local climate. A good local nursery will only sell things that will grow there. (Even if it is guaranteed it is a pain to have to dig up and replace roses as if they were annuals.)
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Jul 28, 2010 2:59 PM CST
Name: Toni
Denver Metro (Zone 5a)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Salvias Garden Procrastinator Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Charter ATP Member Xeriscape Region: Colorado Roses Cat Lover The WITWIT Badge
PPal - I'd agree with you almost 100% with the exception of roses. I'm going to say that almost 100% of my roses that survived my past winter were rated for zone 6-9, and I'm at least zone 5, if not zone 4. With roses, I ignore zones completely. Heirloom is a prime example. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose... Mine's about 2' tall (one of my tallest re-growth roses), survived the middle of my yard w/only about 6" of mulch on the base. Has bloomed only once, but has new buds on it (so like next week). Oranges & Lemons is another example, http://www.helpmefind.com/gard... again zone 7, I planted it in '08 and it's chugging away nicely. Last year it was about 3' across and almost 4' tall, this year, it's again only about 2.5 ft tall and about 2' across.. winterkill.
Roses are one of my passions! Just opened, my Etsy shop (to fund my rose hobby)! http://www.etsy.com/shop/Tweet...
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Jul 28, 2010 10:04 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
They thrive because they know you love them!
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May 14, 2011 10:38 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Vicky Thompson
Michigan (Zone 5b)
Sempervivums Roses Charter ATP Member Peonies Region: Michigan Lilies
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Annuals Daylilies
Wondering if JaeRae got any roses.
I don't like to make recommendations for roses because climate, soil, sun and wind exposure can vary greatly even in the same zone.
Having said that you really can't go wrong with Rugosas, Z5 hardy Ramblers and Albas.

Sorry Zuzu I totally forgot to add some roses to the database this winter.
I'm such a slacker. *Blush*
Well I actually started but couldn't figure it out or was having problems with it
or something like that as I recall.
(Menopause brain here)
"I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck"
Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms

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May 14, 2011 10:39 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Vicky Thompson
Michigan (Zone 5b)
Sempervivums Roses Charter ATP Member Peonies Region: Michigan Lilies
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Farmer Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Annuals Daylilies
BTW James Galway was cane hardy again this winter and we had a very long and cold winter and I did not get around to spraying Wilt-Pruf last fall.
I've grown a ton of so called hardy large flowering climbers and the only ones that have survived and thrived in my spartan conditions are Louise Odier and James Galway.
"I'd rather have roses on my table than diamonds on my neck"
Cottage Rose Birds n' Blossoms

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May 14, 2011 10:58 PM CST
Name: Jamie R
Zone 5b, WI (Zone 5a)
save the rainforest & habitat
Herbs Butterflies I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Wisconsin
Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bulbs Irises Roses Lilies
Hi Vicki. I haven't added any yet. Digging up more back yard is the current focus. I have 75 fans of 3 types of named daylilies coming next week (and another 100 fans of stellas for the dire shade area around the birdbath because they will tolerate the conditions there). The roses I do have are leafing and look happy. I do plan to add some this year once I get done with the daylilies and figure out how much sun space I have left to fork up, so your advice is appreciated. If types do well in your location, that's good information for me.
Woman on the eastbound train
...........................................Je Suis Désolé.
(also a mule lovin', Charley huggin' girl)
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Jul 15, 2011 6:53 AM CST
Name: Jamie R
Zone 5b, WI (Zone 5a)
save the rainforest & habitat
Herbs Butterflies I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Wisconsin
Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bulbs Irises Roses Lilies
No talk here?
Woman on the eastbound train
...........................................Je Suis Désolé.
(also a mule lovin', Charley huggin' girl)
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Jul 15, 2011 4:47 PM CST
Name: Kassia
Framingham, MA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Composter I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Roses
Hi Vickie!!!! How are you???? How's the family!!!! oh so good to see this thread... I read some of it and now that my life is somewhat "normal" and I am working from home I have some time and energy for getting back ... oh I have missed you!!!

ok, my contribution on Cold climate roses... after spending more than a thousand dollars in roses (seriously this past 5 years I don't even want to go back and add all the receipts...) I can say what works for me... Roses from Palatine are the best ones I have... I only get roses from them... specially if I want a big rose... I gave up on own roots... no miniatures either... I have 5 mini roses that survived 5 years ... so sad but it's life and too much work to keep them alive ...

Rugosas are my great love also... they are monsters right now... I mean it... I had to really prune them this year - it was almost impossible to walk among them~ I have 3 Polareis... and they are gorgeous... this past spring they were covered in roses... I was just amazed.. even if they put on a great amazing show in Spring and some have some roses in the fall... I still love them and they are so thorny... they are really great for me...


Double Blanc the Coubert


ok I have one knock out rose (it was gift !) because I am totally a snob regarding roses... but behind the knock out is one of the 3 Polareis...


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Jul 15, 2011 5:39 PM CST
Name: Andi
Delray Beach, FL (Zone 10b)
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap
Did you try the Buck rose Honey Sweet? It does very well for me. You may also like some of the Austin roses, if you have room for them. Wildeve does well for me. The Knockout rose breeder - Radler - has some new roses. He is located in Greenfield, Wisconsin. I have only seen the red and pink knockouts in the stores, but some of the vendors carry his other roses. All the ones that I have seen are own root.

The one knockout I would like to see in person is rainbow knockout.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

This white one is said to be fragrant: Milwaukee's Calatrava
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

Double Bubble is a lighter pink sport of the double pink knockout. I like the light color better.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

In doing this search, I just learned of Radler's hybrid tea rose 'Forget Me Not". It seems to only be available thru Meidland in Europe at the moment.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

Your knockout rose looks prettier than most I have seen, Cottage Rose. All your roses are gorgeous. You have changed my opinion of rugosa roses.
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Jul 15, 2011 6:04 PM CST
Name: Jamie R
Zone 5b, WI (Zone 5a)
save the rainforest & habitat
Herbs Butterflies I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Wisconsin
Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bulbs Irises Roses Lilies
Hey everbuddy, It would really be nice if you at least put your zone in your visible info. Thanks for the info and the links! Some 'study' in my future.
Woman on the eastbound train
...........................................Je Suis Désolé.
(also a mule lovin', Charley huggin' girl)
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Jul 15, 2011 6:45 PM CST
Name: Andi
Delray Beach, FL (Zone 10b)
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap
Sorry, I had my zone in the old place. I'm 6a in the Pocono Mountains. Andi in cubits, GardenQuilts in Dave's Garden. My roses were coated with ice for a month this winter. Late winter was much icier than usual. My climate is not as cold as Wisconsin (you can't drive over the lakes or anything). We probably have more moisture, but less snow cover cue to freeze thaw cycles. Springs are very wet. Daytime is muddy, nightie frozen solid. It can be a challenge for roses, especially poorly grafted ones. I have tons of rocks, so drainage is less than ideal and digging holes big enough to plant roses is a challenge.

I am going to wrap my fussier hybrid teas this winter. I used to do that and stopped. Tiffany, Grenada and Karl Lagerfeld had so much die back I had to wait a long time for blooms. I would rather fuss a bit in the fall if it means less die back and more roses in the spring. I have a small overcrowded garden, so there aren't that many roses to cover. All get some peat moss and mulch at the base. The height of the covering depends on the rose.

I had quite a bit of die back this spring. Much more than usual. None died all the way to the ground, but roses that were previously completely cane hardy needed some cutting back. Luckily, my own root roses sent up new canes. My peonies didn't bloom much, but they sent up lots of new leaves. At the same time, some perennials are much taller than they were last year especially the so called groundcovers.

The lilies have been fantastic even though the skunks dug a few out searching for grubs this winter. I replanted them with a couple of moth balls buried nearby. All survived.

I had a surprise rose this year. The birds planted a once blooming white wild rose. It was pretty when it bloomed, but would have quickly choked the other roses planted nearby. Wild specimens are about 8' x 12' with huge arching canes and lots of suckers. One of my neighbors planted it. It is doing well. She loves feeding the birds so it will provide hips for them.
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Jul 15, 2011 10:12 PM CST
Name: Jamie R
Zone 5b, WI (Zone 5a)
save the rainforest & habitat
Herbs Butterflies I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Wisconsin
Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bulbs Irises Roses Lilies
I'm interested in pruning and 'habiting management' results. My neighbor has some beauties but likes them tall and says don't prune at all, just dead-head but I am relatively new to roses and tend toward liking a bushier look that reblooms more often. That likely involves many factors including selection. So anyone feel welcome to flood me with that kind of information and advice.
Woman on the eastbound train
...........................................Je Suis Désolé.
(also a mule lovin', Charley huggin' girl)
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Jul 15, 2011 11:27 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
I know nothing about cold climates, Jamie, but if you want something bushy that blooms a lot, you probably should concentrate on rose shrubs. The landscape roses like the Meidilands are good rebloomers, and most of them are hardy to zone 4. They come in a variety of colors and heights and they're virtually carefree. I never deadhead mine and they still keep blooming constantly. I have Sevillana and Cherry Meidiland, which are easy to keep within bounds, somewhere between 3-4 feet tall and about 3 feet wide. I also have Fuchsia Meidiland, which is much shorter (2 feet) and more like a ground cover because it spreads out horizontally rather than getting taller.

Here are two pages of roses with "Meidiland" in their names. If any of the colors appeal to you, click on the names and you'll find more photos, comments by other gardeners, and places to buy them.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

I'm sure there are many more rose shrubs that would grow nicely for you in your zone, but I'll leave those recommendations up to Vicky or Toni or someone else in a colder zone.
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Jul 16, 2011 12:02 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Daylilies Houseplants Foliage Fan Birds Butterflies Bee Lover
I am in the same boat (and town) as Zuzu but am enjoying the photos here.

By the way Andi, that wasn't Cottage Rose's Knockout photo, Kassia has come to visit!
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Jul 16, 2011 8:27 AM CST
Name: Jamie R
Zone 5b, WI (Zone 5a)
save the rainforest & habitat
Herbs Butterflies I sent a postcard to Randy! Charter ATP Member Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Wisconsin
Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bulbs Irises Roses Lilies
Thanks Zuzu, that is an interesting site. I have saved to 'Favorites' so I can look further. I have so much to learn about types and care. I remember from childhood that on my walk home from school there was an old south facing garage wall that didn't have a FANCY trellis (perhaps even just chicken wire) and every summer, it was just covered with various colors and kinds of roses. I would just stand there a revel in the fragrance. That's one place I would go back to (and do in my head) ro learn more, long gone to newer contruction now of course.
Woman on the eastbound train
...........................................Je Suis Désolé.
(also a mule lovin', Charley huggin' girl)
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Jul 23, 2011 2:23 PM CST
Name: Andi
Delray Beach, FL (Zone 10b)
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap
Sorry, kassia, I like your red knockout.

Some of you may remember that I pruned back my own root Austin Wildeve rose quite heavily last spring. It was monstrously tall - blocking my front window - with canes thicker than my finger. I am relatively new to roses and intimidated by pruning. I tried to follow the instructions on the Austin site. The plant looked very nice last summer. However, as I mentioned, this spring I had dead canes and die back due to winter. Wildeve also had many fewer new canes this year. It could be due to the weather, the pruning, or some other factor. Since roses store energy in their canes, my heavily pruned rose may have had less energy to send up new canes. I crawled under the rose to completely remove the older/damaged canes. There were quite a few, so I removed them a few at a time. I didn't want to send the stressed plant into shock. I always seal the ends of canes with wood glue to prevent stem borers.

I have top dressed my roses monthly with manure and/or compost in addition to using spray fertilizer. It may take another year or more for Wildeve to recover. I am looking forward to seeing her roses blocking my window again. In the future, I will deadhead and remove crossed and damaged canes. Period.

My roses seem happy with light shaping and deadheading. Some people in this area cut their roses to less than a foot tall every fall. I ignore their advice because I am not impressed by their roses - mainly struggling vintage hybrid teas such as Tropicana. A neighbor's mother tells me several times each fall to cut all of my roses back. I prefer to wait until the forsythia to bloom in spring before pruning. She claims that "tea" roses make better blooms if cut back. I smile, nod and ignore her advice. True tea roses are too tender to grow here. I don't show roses and don't care what people do to make their HYBRID tea roses produce "perfect" blooms. Besides, If I cut back my few own root HYBRID tea roses (Tiffany, Grenada, Lagerfeld) each fall I would be lucky to see blooms by July. (People who insist on calling HYBRID tea roses TEA roses are a pet peeve of mine. One neighbor adamantly states that her roses are not "hybrids", they are "real" roses. Fine. Her REAL roses are shorter than her zinnias and rarely bloom. I'll get my rose advice elsewhere. Some misguided zone 6 soul may follow her advise and buy true tea roses online then give up on roses after they die.)

California Sue (or maybe zuzu) posted some great information on pruning in another thread. There are also some good videos on Paul Zimmerman's blog "Roses are Plants Too" on the finegardening website.

I grow a red ground cover rose - Fire Meidiland. It is very disease resistant - no blackspot, ignored by aphids. It had no die back this winter, possibly because it is close to the ground. It would be beautiful growing on a slope. Mine is growing bigger than expected - sending 6-8' canes as thick as my finger. I always associated Meidiland with fussy hybrid tea roses such as Yves St Laurent. I was pleasantly surprised to read that some of their beautiful roses are also very hardy.

I used to travel to Minneapolis and northern Wisconsin for work. You have much colder winters, more snow cover and shorter growing seasons than I do. Roses that do well for me may still be too tender for you.

I am surprised with skiekitty's success overwintering big box grafted roses in her garden. I have given up on grafted big box roses until I become proficient at rose propagation. We both live in cold climates, but Colorado is much drier than PA. I think the late winter/early spring freeze-thaw cycles in PA damage the grafts. (I had dug out several dead rose sticks in springs with split grafts before I gave up on grafted roses, especially those grafted on Dr. Huey which is borderline hardy here.). I had planted the grafted roses as deeply as I could get holes dug for them - about 2-4" below ground. I had to have friends help me to remove the rocks and dig the holes that deep. Some sources recommend planting the grafts 6-8" below ground level. I would need earthmoving equipment and possibly dynamite to dig holes that deep in my garden. Someone had recommended trying to plant the graft just above the ground surface to protect it from winter wet. Surface planting with peat moss winter protection may work, but I haven't tried it yet. (Planting the graft at or above ground level may protect the graft from standing water but would also make the graft more vulnerable to freezing temperatures. This would be a bold experiment - not a recommendation).

I visited rosesarered's nearby garden. She grows her roses in raised beds. She has some grafted roses from Pickering and/or Palentine's that are doing very well for her. That is another strategy that may work for you. There is a thread here that zuzu comments on grafted roses and root stocks. The most common root stock, Dr. Huey, may not be the best choice for cold climates.

I look up roses on helpmefind, cubits and other places to see if any given rose grows well for others in cold climates before trying it in my garden. A rose that grows in the northern Midwest, Canada, Scandinavia or northern Russia may also grow well in the Poconos. Of course, that means that I don't even think of buying the hot new rose on the cover of the catalogs until a few years after it is introduced. I don't mind waiting. I have more roses on my wish list than I have room to plant them. Roses are too expensive for me to treat them as annuals. This has been the toughest winter in years, but all of my roses survived. Considering the number of roses that died previous winters I am happy with my rose choices.

We are suffering record high temperatures and 100% humidity. Time to pile on the sunblock and water my garden. This weather is only good for tomatoes and solar tea. Winston the pug is laying in front of the a/c "holding it" so he doesn't have to go outside. Yesterday I filled a rubbermaid dish pan with water to make a doggie pool for him. He wasn't impressed, but the neighbors thought it was hysterical.
Last edited by GardenQuilts Jul 23, 2011 5:04 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 23, 2011 2:37 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Hi, Andi. Yes, I am the one who posted the pruning advice. I don't remember ever advising that the graft be above ground level to protect it from winter wet, however. In California, we do usually plant roses with the graft 1-2 inches above the ground, but that's so that we can identify suckers easily. If it's coming from below the graft, it's not a cane we want. This probably is not a good idea in colder climates, where it's best to bury the graft under the surface of the soil.
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Jul 23, 2011 5:00 PM CST
Name: Andi
Delray Beach, FL (Zone 10b)
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap
You didn't recommend it, but someone (I think it was you, I could be wrong - I'll edit my post) suggested trying to plant the graft at the surface to protect from wet as long as there was winter protection. I remember it was mentioned as something to try that may or may not work not as something to definitely do.

Most companies say to put the graft 2-4" below the ground for my area. I have read some sources recommending burying the graft even deeper. Our frost line is 24". I measured the "spring mud line" this year. I may be the only person crazy enough to do this, but I will do anything for my irises and my roses. By my own definition, the "spring mud line" is the part of the ground that melts and refreezes on a daily basis in early spring. This averaged 6-8" in my garden. This means that the top 6-8" melted to very wet mud and standing water and refroze to solid frozen ground and ice at night . The water/mud doesn't drain because the ground below is frozen. At the same time snow was falling, melting, and refreezing as ice. That is February, March and sometimes April in the Poconos.

Avoiding grafted roses altogether has been working for me.

I have one surviving grafted rose - William Shakespeare 2000 - a gift from a friend. When I planted Will, I soaked him overnight and brushed the lower parts of the damp canes with rooting compound just before planting. I was hoping to encourage him to grow his own roots. He is located at a slightly drier part of the garden which is at a slightly higher elevation. I cover the base of Will and my other tender roses with at least 8" of peat moss with some shredded hardwood bark on top to keep the peat moss from blowing away. The frozen mound of peat moss seems to repel water. I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't as soggy as the surrounding ground. (I checked it while inventing the "spring mud method".).

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