Much of my garden is now doing pretty well but getting it here hasn't been easy. Over the last 13 years I've learned that adding a ton of organic matter and using the best organic fertilizer and pouring on the water is still not enough in this concrete like, rock rich high desert country. Not by a long shot. I've learned that I also need to have lots of great fungi and bacteria and enzymes thriving here to make it work well. Slowly I'm making progress. So I'm always looking for and trying new things to make my garden grow better, faster, with fewer bugs and a lot less work. A girl can dream, can't she?

Among many, many other websites I've studied... I've seen all the videos by Geoff Lawton - 'Greening the Desert'. I've also seen all the videos by Elaine Ingham about "compost and microbes'. Good info. In my area some stuff works, some not so much and some not worth trying. I tried something new last summer. The first trial I did was spectacular but I won't recommend it to anyone until I've tried it 3 times and each test shows great results. Will test again when the weather warms.

But in the meantime I saw this video a few days ago. It sounds too good to be true. Sound simple enough and sometimes it the simplest things that can work so well. It's just a 5 minute video. I hope you will all watch it and tell me what you think.

Turning desert into grasslands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

My final thoughts... I think the Salton Sea has several problems and this probably won't work there but it sure sounds like it could possibly work in most places. And I don't have access to animals or organic manure. Dumped a large amount of local manure on my gardens many years back. It must have been saturated with Roundup because it ruined my gardens for several years. But I'm trying to think of a comparable substitute I could try.

Please let me know what you think.

Hi Debbie
It was an interesting video. Just seems like it would take a very long time to achieve on a large scale plus not sure how that would be something I could achieve in my small backyard.

Round-up did absolutely NOTHING to your garden. It is adsorbed to soil particles and non-available to plant roots.
The issue at the Salton Sea is water, plain and simple there just isn't enough natural rainfall to grow a grassland, otherwise there would already be one.
Anywhere else it takes organic matter (sometimes lots and lots) and plenty of water.

Not Round-up, but there is no lack of documentation of crop damage from manure tainted with aminopyralid, clopyralid, and picloram which belong to a class of herbicides used on livestock pastureland and passes through the animals' digestive tracts intact, into the manure. But you knew that Cal, right?

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/h...

https://extension.wvu.edu/lawn....

Yep, those are a problem. If they only used them for pasture it wouldn't be a problem. It's more of a feedlot and dairy issue.

Hello Neighbor!
I'd say it's worth a try, I'd be very interested in how it works out. I do have a couple of comments.
There is usually a salt block out for livestock in our area. The manure can be salty enough to limit plant growth.
That said, almost any livestock owner would be happy to permit you to haul off all the manure you want.
You might see if you can get goat, sheep or chicken manure. They're a lot less likely to have contaminants.
I've been a fan of native grasses, and have some good clumps going in my yard. You do need to learn to recognize the non-native invasives, and pull them out before they go to seed. Be careful, or you'll end up with a field of foxtails, buffel grass, brome etc.
Do you have a good source for native grass seeds? That will speed things up a bit.
I think you should be prepared to do at least some watering, when plants are young and we have dry spells. Once it's established, it shouldn't take much.
Keep us posted, I'd like to hear how you adapt this system to your conditions, and how it works out.

Hi all,
It was very nice to hear from you. Yes Zoe, you are correct. I shouldn't blame everything on Roundup. And after using local manure (horse and alpaca) all my beds had the classic signs of severe herbicide damage for several years. The only organic feeds they sell around here are for goats and chickens. Ms Doe, getting goat and chicken manure is a good suggestion. If I can find someone willing to share I could try this experiment on a small, fresh patch of untouched dirt. And thanks for the tip about the salt!

Yes Calpoly, very limited rainfall is a big part of the issue I'm interested in here. In desert country we have to conserve and use every single drop of water super-wisely. All these videos show that it can be done. Even in places that get just 6-10" of rainfall a year they are greening the desert. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

I've learned over the years that shade is essential. I've been planting lots of trees and shrubs that provide dappled sunlight which is extremely helpful with no obvious downsides. I've also been using ground covers and mulches which are exceptional too but also problematic.

For example. For years I couldn't grow root vegies like carrots and beets or most vetches because they have to be sown into the top 1/4-1/2" of soil. Even after a good soaking the soil would be bone dry 20 minutes later in my super hot climate and they couldn't germinate. Even watering every couple of hours was a waste of time and water. So I learned to sow the seeds and sprinkle a thin layer of shredded leaves or thin, dry grasses over the top to keep the moisture in longer. I water twice a day and it works quite well. The downside is it brings in all the pill bugs. That's another discussion.

And Ms. Doe, I water all the time but much less in winter, my favorite time to grow. We've been in extreme drought and haven't had a decent monsoon for many years now.

Anyway, I found several things very fascinating about this gentleman's approach. A thick layer of manure (6-8") adds a lot of nutrients, bacteria and fungi. Good stuff. And it holds the moisture in quite well. He seems to get great results but I have a lot of questions....

Doesn't that thick layer create anaerobic conditions? How do the seeds germinate without oxygen? Or are the soils he's building up contain a lot of sand which could hold a lot more air under fairly dry, barely moist conditions. So will it only work on specific soils and would not work on my rock hard concrete dirt? Could it work for seeds sown very close to the soil surface like carrots or would they get burned by the fresh manure. Will it only work on grasses which are larger seeds and can germinate from much deeper levels? And I'm guessing that this wouldn't work on seeds that need light to germinate.

Jump starting the dead soil to grow anything will begin the cycle of fertility. The grasses create organic matter, cool the soil and more fungi and bacteria's grow. Looks like a good first step to green the desert but only under very specific circumstances. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

I think a mix of manure(s) and other organic matter would work better than either one alone. This would help with the salt issue, too. It is critical that there is actually soil above the rock, otherwise there is nothing for the roots to grow in.
The other issue is that you're not re-creating a former plant community that was destroyed by over-grazing or other human activity. You are trying to create a plant community that never existed in that location due to insufficient rainfall. Take a portion of your yard that has the best soil, improve that area and let the rest of it be what it was or add exotics that can survive on the existing rainfall or with minimal additional irrigation. It's much less stressful.

Here's a link to the wood-chip video that was posted earlier, I think you might find it helpful. A lot of the issues are the same. I found it easy to obtain free wood chips. I'm not sure if they work as well in our Southwest conditions, but they might. Just don't get them while the Siberian Elms have seeds, you'll never see the end of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Hi All,
You have all helped me to think this project through and evaluate this possible experiment. I think CalPoly is probably right. I couldn't use this to grow something new. But I am going to put a post on Craigslist and try to get some herbicide free goat and chicken manure to compost for my beds. Most people here that have animals use their manure for their own gardens but I am going to give it a try.

This experiment could only be used to rejuvenate dormant seeds that were growing here in the past. The gentleman in the video was rejuvenating old grasslands. It appears to work well on certain soils. However I'm still curious how it doesn't go anaerobic. But my area was never grasslands. It was full of lots of ugly, evil weeds, mostly covered in burrs and thorns and only a few types of scattered grasses. This is a picture of the unattended lot next to my property. It is not pretty! And I don't want to regrow any of that stuff!

And hi MsDoe. I have wood chips in 3 different sections of my yard. Wood chips behave differently in every different climate. And can work well for many different reasons. But that is a different topic so I will start a new thread. Thank you all for a great discussion.

Adding amendments to hard pack clay soils is an exercise in aggravation and frustration. Like diamonds, clay soil is forever.
Much like what was described above by SedonaDebbie -"Concrete high desert soil".

Why not just add a good top soil and build up beds no wood frames are needed for your purposes. First tilling the soil, then roll cardboard , tarps over the top or other source of cover to prevent weed seeds from germinating . Or there are a few organic weed killers available -Avenger is an organic weed killer I use. It may take a bit longer than the chemical weed killers but it works just as well.

Once the area to be planted is prepped just add 4-6" or whatever amount fits your garden needs of top soil or animal scat which has been dried and treated with heat to block any bacteria or antigen's in the soil , additionally add leaf or other preferred organic content. In my garden I prefer mushroom compost in all the built up beds over a couple of acres.

Preparing the soil first is the most important step.
Much like the first step in adding grass seed to any lawn.
First prepare the garden soil, then water. To retain moisture add a top dressing. I use - crushed hazelnut shells or bark to help hold the moisture in the soil where it's needed to prevent evaporation.

Studies show that shade trees also help soils from drying out quickly. Trees and vegetation, bushes, shrubs, and tall grasses lower surface and air temperatures by providing shade and cooling through evaporation and transpiration, also called evapotranspiration.

Unfortunately we don't have herds of the cattle every day applying fresh hot droppings on soil which kill anything under it and the constant process of cattle grazing on the wild grasses . And grazing down to the roots will also kill the grass in dry hot temps.

Cattle scat is loaded with weed and grass seeds. They omit in the video how the rains wash out the heavily deposited areas from the cattle left behind spreads across the fields from the rains which eventually comes. This natural, mixture in the grasslands is much like the heated scat added as 'Manure Tea' that was once popular and added to gardens mixed with water & oxygen. This is the mixture that treats the grasslands which are left to grow to seed will reseed the grasslands naturally thru rotation of the cattle .
Very similar to what we have done in the pastures with our horses.

I WAS wondering just how far out in the sticks you are.
It doesn't get anaerobic under the manure because it's so dry. Relying on natural precipitation leaves things fairly dry except for short periods of rain or snowmelt.
I think if you can mix some organic matter into the soil and then mulch fairly thick it will make it easier to grow things. If you can contour some areas to catch any rain or snowmelt it will help a lot.