This is a recent tubular indoor bloom. It's single, but I am keeping it anyway.

These are just fascinating! Good work.

Hi ZenMan,

I came across this thread by googling "tubular petal zinnia" after finding tubular mutations in two different breeding populations of Zinnia this season. I am starting off on a similar path that you went down in 2014, but I have one question that I do not believe has been answered on this thread- can the tubular petal flowers be insect pollinated? I have seen flowers that start out tubular, and then later petals are normal and the stigmas can be easily accessed, but in your fully tubular selections, Is there any insect crossing happening?

Thank you for writing about your experiences, I find it very interesting.

Hello Eric,
Welcome to this National Gardening forum.

" can the tubular petal flowers be insect pollinated? I have seen flowers that start out tubular, and then later petals are normal and the stigmas can be easily accessed, but in your fully tubular selections, Is there any insect crossing happening? "

Good question. I think the short answer is "no". The stigmas are inside a tube and they are inaccessible to an insect. So far my tubulars have been mostly propagated by floret seeds at the base of pollen florets, and occasionally by me breaking the tubes to expose the enclosed stigma. Tubular zinnia blooms are perfectly capable of seed production via floret seeds.

But, in my opinion, it is not even desirable for tubular zinnias to set seeds at the base of their tubes. If they did that, the plants would "go to seed" prematurely. That just would sap the energy of the plant. I do stay on the lookout for a tubular mutant that has a viable seed at the base of an intact tube, because that would be a significant development. But that will not imply insect pollination. It would be just be another mode of natural self pollination, like with the pollen florets.

We should be careful what we wish for. The inaccessible stigmas in tubes is probably a good thing, allowing the zinnias to display decorative blooms with out excessive seed production. Tubular petals can supply variety to zinnia blooms.

I have seen butterflies methodically inserting their feeding tubes down the tubes of tubular zinnias, as recently as day before yesterday, but that doesn't imply insect pollination. Apparently at least some tubular blooms have some nectar in the petal tube along with the enclosed stigma.

Butterflies and skippers actually do very little actual zinnia pollination. Their visits to a zinnia bloom to feed on available nectar are fairly gentle and they don't knock the pollen from florets around much.

Bumblebees and Honeybees and Hummingbirds do knock the pollen around and contribute significantly to zinnia pollination of normal petal stigmas. But even they do a lot more selfing than crossing. Most of the crossing in my zinnia garden is done by me.

We currently have a significant hummingbird population working our two hummingbird feeders that are near my zinnia garden and the hummingbirds also visit the zinnia blooms daily. Our Mimosa tree is still in bloom on some branches, and the hummingbirds visit those daily as well. So I do not consider it a problem that tubular zinnia petals are not insect pollinated.

I think that tubular zinnia petals offer a variety of decorative looks to zinnia blooms, without endangering their ability to propagate.

ZM

Those are interesting. Do the hummingbirds like the tubular zinnia?

Hi Eric,

" Do the hummingbirds like the tubular zinnia? "

The tubular zinnias are mixed in with the non-tubular and conventional zinnia blooms. The hummingbirds dart around my zinnia patch rather rapidly, and I have not observed any difference in the time spent per bloom based on the bloom type. They typically spend only a few seconds per bloom visited, as contrasted with the time spent on the hummingbird feeder I have hanging in my zinnia patch, which can be a minute or longer.

There were two hummingbirds and a wasp on the feeder when I snapped that photo. Some hummingbirds are aggressive and chase any other hummingbird off of the feeder. Sometimes an aerial battle involving several hummingbirds develops. Incidentally, the feeder is hanging from a Mimosa tree limb that stretches out over my zinnia patch, and hummingbirds also get nectar from the blooms on the Mimosa tree. When I am pollinating zinnias I get used to the fluttering-purring sound of nearby hummingbirds. Sometimes one will pass within inches of my head, which makes me glad I am wearing glasses, because they have very thin sharp beaks. One even paused a few inches in front of my head, looking straight at me, apparently seeing his reflection in my glasses.

ZM

Very cool looking zinnias, Zenman. I was thinking the hummingbirds might be able to pollinate them.

My hummingbirds are very territorial. They never allow 2 birds at the one feeder, or withing sight for that matter.

I had a big mimosa for years. The hummingbirds loved it.

Karen

Hi Karen,

Our hummingbirds are also very territorial, and they carry out some impressive aerial battles involving several hummingbirds. They do on occasion have two on a feeder, sometimes even three. But mostly on opposite sides of the feeder, where they may not even see each other. Tomorrow is the first day of Fall, and as it gets cooler here, our hummingbirds will leave us and migrate to the South. I think several of them have succeeded in raising new families of baby hummingbirds here this Summer.

I have been making cross pollinations between tubular and non-tubular zinnias, with the objective of increasing the diversity of my zinnias. I also like many non-tubular zinnias, including some with "teeth" on their petals, or "cactus" flowered zinnias with "pointy" petals.

I am always on the lookout for new looks in my zinnia blooms. As Fall is nearly here, I am starting to think about my next Indoor Zinnia Project.

ZM

Very nice!

Hello All,

I have continued to get variations on the tubular petaled zinnias.

That one reminds me a bit of some undersea plant. This is another tubular specimen, whose petals end with a "flower" composed of very narrow tubes.

This is a closer view to show the narrow petal ends curved details.

That bloom reminded me of a thistle bloom.
I am currently "perfecting" my indoor zinnia growing techniques, by experimenting with Oxine. Oxine is interesting stuff and has some ingenious chemistry.

ZM

Absolutely beautiful! Thanks for sharing😍

ZenMan said: Hello All,



That bloom reminded me of a thistle bloom. ZM

ZM ~ OOOH! Just gorgeous!!!

Nice to see some of your results this year. You have come a long way.

Beautiful Z!

ZM ~ What have you got "in the works" for this year?

evelyninthegarden said: ZM ~ What have you got "in the works" for this year?

Same — I've missed seeing your creations for a while!

Hello Evelyn,

evelyninthegarden said: ZM ~ What have you got "in the works" for this year?

Well, this year is nearly gone. I am now doing indoor gardening stuff. One project is planting a bunch of very old seeds, with the idea that if any germinate they might have a genetic trait for long-lived seeds.
I have had a few outdoor specimens with some "different" genetics.

That tubular specimen was reasonably white on the outside of its tubes, which looks better to me than the usual greenish tube color. The outside of tube petals corresponds to the backside of "regular" zinnia petals, which are usually a light green. Occasionally you will see a regular zinnia that has white petal backsides, and I consider that to be a good trait.

This Winter I hope to improve my indoor zinnia growing techniques. I consider my indoor growing techniques last Winter to have been a bit on the sad side. I am currently battling an aphid outbreak in my seedlings, using Bayer's systemic insect killer. I will let you know how that goes.

ZM

ZM ~ Oh no! APHIDS!!! Nasty little critters. Have you tried praying Mantis? Or Ladybird Beetles? Maybe that wouldn't be so practical in your grow room. Do you have a fan running in there?

It's nice to see that you are still working on your zinnias. I hope to be starting some next year. Too many health issues got in the way on planting any this year. My very small space in the basement will be devoted to starting hardy annuals, perennials and biennials to transplant into the garden. After it warms up in May, I hope to start the warm-season annuals such as zinnias, cosmos and marigolds. I guess I should start them a bit earlier, huh? Like in March or April?

When do you start your zinnias inside, to be transplanted outside? Or do you direct seed them all outside then? (You may have answered this question before.)

Hello Evelyn and Zoë,

At this moment I don't have access to any natural aphid controls like a Praying Mantis or LadyBugs. The last time I tried to "pet" a Praying Mantis in my garden, it attacked me! Our size difference didn't seem to matter to it. I will check my aphid situation tomorrow. Hopefully, the Bayer product will wipe them out. I don't have any "pet" aphids.

"I guess I should start them a bit earlier, huh? Like in March or April?"
You could start them indoors in little pots, but unless you are trying to get two generations outside, you could just plant their seeds directly inground in your garden after there is no danger of frost. My main plantings are inground because that is so much less trouble and makes it practical to plant a lot of them.

I see a lot of different insects in my outdoor zinnias. This is a photo of a young katydid on one of my zinnia blooms.

Katydids are "good" because I believe that most of them are carnivorous, meaning that they eat other insects and don't eat my zinnias or any other plants in my garden. During the Summer here in our rural area, we get quite a population of Katydids (several different species of them I believe) and they do some impressive "singing" in the evening. I enjoy a cup of hot tea or decaf coffee in the evening while watching the fireflies and listening to the katydids or evening birds. A Yeti cup is my constant companion in the garden. It's unbreakable and vacuum insulated to keep a drink hot or cold.

I try to keep my gardening enjoyable. I no longer try to pet Praying Mantises.

More later.

ZM