Well, then ... "Those who say less, know more."

I bet anything, if you lined up all the modest people who said this in one room: "I don't know enough about X to teach a class", and lined up all the arrogant people who think they "know it ALL", in another room, you could get better advice from the first room.

There probably is a middle group that knows they are moderately well-informed but are not arrogant and are still eager to learn more ... and maybe willing to try to teach. Would they average more or less knowledgeable than the modest people in the first room? I think that's a close call.

But no one who thinks they "know it all" is eager enough to KEEP learning and testing their "knowledge" against reality and everyone's evolving understanding of the subject.

All good points and I couldn't agree more.

Despite the negativity I expressed, I do plan to at least find out what the first few steps are in WA, after I retire.

I don't mind being TAUGHT dogma, as long as I don't have to believe it and spout it back.

Maybe there will be volunteer opportunities that don't rely on my embracing a Party Line.

And who knows? WA MG may not be dogmatic after all.

("Maybe the horse will sing.")

I have not gone through the Master Gardener program but have found a bit time to take other types of horticulture classes.

Speaking only as a mother and as a gardener, I would say stay home and garden with the children , learn as much as you can with the children helping and learning with you. It may be better to be the local neighborhood plant guru and world's best mom with dirt under her fingernails. There are tons of opportunities to volunteer to do garden-related project that involve children...school, scouts, etc. One day (when you are old and grey) take the MG classes; maybe by then the MG program won't be so dependent on chemicals.

@greene I agree with everything you've said, except the chemical aspect. I don't remember being told to use chemicals or suggest anyone else use them except as a last resort. I don't use harmful chemicals and certainly wouldn't suggest anyone use them. There are exceptions, such as termites in my hugelkultur pile. I now can't plant anything there for a while after battling the termites. I'm just not comfortable planting any edibles in that bed.

Here I find it necessary to defend or clarify that I said..."maybe by then the MG program won't be so dependent on chemicals". Meaning that I do not like to use chemicals, I did not take the Master Gardener program because I could not in all conscience advise people to poison the earth, and I was hoping that in the future the MG program would find a better way - without chemicals.

Perhaps you were absent when they were teaching about chemical use and advice.
Here is one example from the state of South Dakota; I's sure each state might have similar lists.
Look down the list to find the word 'chemical'.
https://www.sdstate.edu/sdces/...

Greene, I would interpret the "chemical" paragraph in your link as having more to do with protection from legal liability from off-label recommendations or unapproved products than advocating chemical pesticide use. They do say " First priority should be given to providing cultural and management information to minimize pest damage".

A article relevant to pesticide recommendations by Master Gardeners is this one from Oregon State, which advocates integrated pest management, where chemicals are used only as a last resort (which I would certainly hope most MG programs are encouraging):
http://extension.oregonstate.e...

Of course one may have a different opinion of what constitutes a "last resort"

Giving pesticide information doesn't have to encompass only recommendations to use them. With pesticide knowledge one can also reduce pesticide use by giving appropriate information. For instance if someone wants to go the chemical route then you can advise them what is the least toxic, or prevent them from using something inappropriate for their problem and therefore unnecessary.

Not that I'm advocating "chemical" pesticide use and I do understand that if one is philosophically opposed to their use it is difficult to give non-judgmental advice to someone intent on using them. On the other hand some home remedies are pretty scary too

greene, in the example you gave, the sentence before the chemical one says " First priority should be given to providing cultural and management
information to minimize pest damage. " I.E. non chemical.

Do you mean to tell me that one living in the south does not use (chemical) measures to control roaches? Please enlighten me on how that is done. I am always more than willing to learn.

Like Sandi and Sue, I can state with certainty the Mississippi Master Gardener Volunteer program does not advocate chemical usage unless there is little else available to control some sort of problem. When I went through the coarse, there was little mention at all of chemicals, and I did not miss a second of any session.

I wish I had grandkids, but I don't and never will. My children are my plants and of course Puff, the cat. There definitely are ample opportunities for those (who wish to do so), to volunteer their time in worthwhile, charitable activities. Our Extension Service constantly works with school children of all ages to educate and motivate those children so that they know something about horticultural subjects. Since the Master Gardener works closely with the Extension Service, we are often thrust into those programs and we do so eagerly.

I will answer but I feel this is off topic from the original question, so I apologize in advance.

For roaches, put sprigs of Rosemary in every cabinet. The roaches leave. The are probably in Alabama or Mississippi by now - I use a lot of Rosemary!

When we have an abundance of cucumbers in the garden I also place cucumber peels in a shallow dish here are they around the kitchen. Roaches dislike the smell of cucumbers.

You could also place garlic cloves in the cabinets but that would also repel the vampires...

Diatonaceous Earth (DE) can be sprinkled here and there, that helps a bit.

If I did not have cats/dogs as pets I would buy a house Gecko and let it loose in the house, leaving a dish of fresh drinking water. A Gecko works fast and cheap.

Or make some catnip tea, let it cool, put it in a spray bottle and use it to keep the roaches away -no not use this method if you value your cat's sanity!

I will now leave and let you all get back to the original question; sorry for the interruption.

I got a chuckle out of #9 of the SD outline provided by Greene. Although I don't know anyone who considers themselves to have mastered gardening (is that even possible??), I don't think anyone particularly owns that term. Per my dictionary, the adjective 'master' means 'highly skilled or proficient' and the noun 'gardener' is 'one who works in or tends a garden.' Just as one can be a master thief or master beer maker, so can one be a master gardener (uncapitalized). Just quibbling...

And, Greene, even though I don't have any roaches, good suggestions to try. I wonder if southernwood would also work, it repels moths. I am imagining a very nice potpourri of the two, kind of fresh and woodsy. And love the idea of a house gecko!

I can state unequivocally that I have nothing to do with the MG program of South Dakota, or missed a Master Gardener class, including the one on Enviromental Horticulture. Our class was introduced to the Earth-Kind program that combined the best organic and traditional gardening principles. We also learned Integrated Pest Management (IPM).

I believe this thread was started by @GardenLiz to ask if she should take the classes now with small children at home (who's probably shaking her head now). I will repeat that the program is really geared toward people who have a lot of time to devote to the program. That is probably why so many retirees are selected. I would add, Liz, to enjoy your time with the children. They are gone off to school and activities all too soon.

We have perhaps every insect known to man down here. I do have lots of rosemary and garlic. For some reason my wife really freaks out when she sees a roach run across the floor. She swears she came from a part of California where there were no roaches. Maybe that's why she is so fearful of them.

Bonehead said:... I don't know anyone who considers themselves to have mastered gardening (is that even possible??)

I know I'm quoting selectively and out of context, but I wanted to applaud that phrase enthusiastically.

I thought some more about what bothered me so much, and I'm even more sure now that "It's me, it's not the MG programs".

Their goal is to give advice to people who mostly do NOT want to research and debate the ninety-eleven possible different points of view and opinions that exist on any given real-world issue that involves people and their varying situations.

That's a worthy goal, and wanting a SIMPLE answer is understandable, even if I happen to think that few simple answers capture all the relevant variables.

I would like to convince all of them that nature is seldom simple, and they should relish the complexities as much as I do.

But they are the smart ones if they answer "FFFPPPTTT, I don't WANT a three-page debate, I WANT a simple answer that's fairly likely to be at least somewhat helpful".

At least I happened to say the right thing: I would have a hard time giving simple answers (that seem dogmatic and incomplete to me).

In other words, I would have a hard time giving normal home gardeners USEFUL answers!

I'm beginning to think that I shouldn't question whether an MG program is right for me ... I should hope that my local MG program is smart enough to reject me, or at least let me do volunteer time doing tasks that won't drive normal people asking normal questions right straight out of their minds!

People keep telling me that I'm too detail-oriented, but that's kind of incomprehensible to me. It would be like being too healthy, too rich, or having too much compost.

I tell my plants that I do not have too much compost, I just don't have enough dirt.

As usual, Corey --

I received my 15 year Master Gardener pin last year. I have been a student of horticulture for over twenty years taking courses from a local college, Longwood Gardens Certificate Courses, graduate courses from Florida U. and am learning every day. To give back to the community isn't hard because there are so many ways to do your volunteer hours. I've taught in the local prisons, girl and boy scouts and did gardening courses at the local university. If I'm asked a question I have no knowledge of I say so and refer them to the home office where we at least have the info on file. I've made some great friends and met some stinkers. That's life. When I was asked to collect specimens of butterflies for display I refused because I will not kill anything. When I'm asked what kind of chemical to use to kill an insect I tell them this story. I was in a class room with 33 third graders. I told them tonight we will have a party. I'm jealous of Wilma, my friend with me, because she has a nicer garden. So I'm going to poison the punch. They could drink it because I liked them but it would take care of Wilma for me. I had 15 hands go up to tell me the punch would hurt them all. I debated them for a few minutes and they were very thoughtful when I told them using chemicals to kill one insect or problem usually means death to many others. EVEN third graders knew that so when someone tell me they have to use chemicals I refer them to the home office. If your a Master Gardener you aren't obligated to go against your beliefs.

Well said, hugger.