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Jun 6, 2015 3:45 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Okay, waiting for this Orange-Barred Sulphur to come out is boring. And as all my teachers and bosses can tell you, a bored Melanie is not a good Melanie.

But I thought this could be a lesson on chrysalises! Because I've also been meaning to take a picture of my Long-Tailed Skipper (not named after me or my family, sadly) that is somehow still in its chrysalis. When did that thing go in? Feels like it's been a while. Ah shoot, the Sulphur is emerging! Back in a minute!

Okay, lots of pictures to share now. But first, people always ask how to tell when a butterfly is going to emerge. Most of them make it easy on you. The chrysalis thins and you can actually see the wing pattern. That's how I can tell I had a male Orange-Barred Sulphur. I can see his orange bar through the chrysalis. But also, you see where the body is there are like "rings" around the chrysalis. Those tend to show up before the butterfly comes out. I think it's because the body has come loose from the chrysalis. And in Sulphurs, sometimes you can see that weird tip (the pointy end) move a little before it comes out.

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Now, the Long-Tailed Skipper is a little different. They pupate inside a nest, kind of like a moth. Remember how the Skippers were the first to break off from the moths - I submit more evidence. But they do make a little girdle like butterflies tend to. You can see the silk in the first picture. Now, I can't figure out how they do this, but Long-Tailed Skippers powder themselves when they make a chrysalis. I have no idea how or why they do this. I mean, the chrysalis is basically another "skin" they shed into so how does this powder appear? What is it for? It doesn't even last because you can see how it rubs right off on my hand. I can't imagine it lasting through a good rain. Maybe it's supposed to look like leaf fungus or mold? All opinions welcome. Anyway, his leaf nest had a regular mold problem, so I tore him free and he is now in the pupation chamber (which I've decided sounds cooler than pupation container).

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Now for that Orange-Barred Sulphur. You have to put up with the dim light from my lamp since I didn't have a chance to turn on the overhead light. Not that it would have helped much. So here's a bunch of pictures, in chronological order, of it emerging.

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Want to see something super trippy? Open the last picture and run them backward so it looks like the butterfly is going back in the chrysalis. I just did it and I think I made myself dizzy. Okay, let's go outside now where the lighting is better. Still a little wrinkled, but look at the orange bars across the top wings. That's where they got the name! Doesn't quite work for the females, but maybe whoever discovered it found a male specimen first?

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Another look at the orange bar and the meconium it leaked on me. I've never had children (thank goodness) but I hear meconium is also what they call the stuff that comes out of human children when they're born. I made the mistake of Googling it once and Google images reminded me why I'm glad I don't have children.

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I just like the angle of this picture.

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I love the scalloping on the wings. You don't really get to appreciate that when they fly by at light speed. I think I heard one break the sound barrier once. Rolling on the floor laughing You know, Chuck Yeager (who was the first human to break the sound barrier) is from Lincoln County, WV where my Dad is from and where I'm always talking about when I mention Grandma. He used to fly his plane under bridges and generally harass his neighbors in the area. They're all proud of him though and there are lots of things named for him in the area. They have a Chuck Yeager day every year but I think they hold it in a different county where they actually have enough infrastructure to hold a proper celebration. I cannot stress how rural Lincoln County is, folks. Good for butterflying, though. Lots of trees and wilderness.

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Since I knew this was a male, I was trying to look at his boy parts and see if I could see the claspers. What do you think? (And don't answer that I'm a butterfly perv.) Rolling on the floor laughing This is all in the name of science!

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Now I hear some horsies are going to run in a circle before the hockey game starts. Better check that out...
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Jun 6, 2015 3:57 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Those are the coolest photos I've ever seen!
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Jun 6, 2015 4:03 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Aww shucks, let's keep the hyperbole to a minimum. I have a lot of problems, but self-esteem is not one of them! Remember, I grew up in the 80's!
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Jun 6, 2015 6:58 PM CST
Name: Meredith
Atlanta (Zone 8a)
Butterflies Region: Georgia Hummingbirder Seed Starter
I am learning so much from this forum - love it! Thanks for sharing that last series Melanie, it's really special.
I love butterfly gardening & am active in NABA. Please visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/group... & website nabageorgia.weebly.com.
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Jun 6, 2015 7:19 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Fascinating, amazing, riveting & thank YOU! I'm just sitting here kinda doing this right now Blinking Blinking letting it all sink in. The old saying one picture is worth a thousand words well there are (I think) 20 photos of the sulphur so 20,000 words.

YES! I like that scalloping too & the orange is sooooooooooooo pretty & noticeable.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Jun 6, 2015 7:33 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Not nearly as exciting as Melanie's post but my big cat molted today & as far as I can tell ate the skin.It didn't eat at all today, just hung around at the top of the stick pretty much motionless - when I came back in from dinner I saw it had molted & the next time I looked I can't find the skin anywhere so I assume it ate it. I can see the head cap laying on the bottom of the jar though. I think the little guy molted yesterday as I could not find it anywhere but figured it was hiding in some of the curled leaves where I couldn't see, Today I once again spotted it & it looks larger.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Jun 6, 2015 8:05 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Ann, remind me what caterpillar species you're raising? Yep, they usually hang out for about a day. Then they molt in like, five minutes. After a few more minutes, they turn around and usually eat the skin. A free meal is a free meal, I guess. And they do not eat the head capsule. Some researchers collect the head capsules in order to document how many instars a caterpillar has. Butterflies usually have five instars. When they hatch is the first and then each molt is another instar. But when they make the chrysalis, that's the next phase of life and doesn't count as an instar. You guys remember the life cycle: egg, caterpillar, pupa, adult.

I haven't done a PSA in a while so here goes. Never move a molting caterpillar unless it's in some kind of mortal danger! And even then, it would be better to remove the danger and not the caterpillar. You see, when caterpillars molt, they first lay down a layer of silk. Then, they attach themselves to it. The head capsule detaches (which is what makes it look like it's sitting low on their head), and they puff themselves up with air to loosen the skin. Now, once attached to the silk, with rare exceptions (Monarchs seem to be one) they cannot silk anymore. I believe this is due to either the head capsule detaching or covering their spinnaret. I'm a little unclear about if the spinnaret is on the head capsule or under it. Anyway, they can't silk anymore. They need that silk to provide resistance when they start to pull. Imagine trying to take your sock off without pulling on it. That's what it's like.

So what do you do if you accidentally knock one off? I've done this at the museum and at home. If your other caterpillars or the one you have was nice and silked up your container, you can sometimes find a silky patch to stick the caterpillar to. Hold it there for a few seconds (okay, maybe more like a minute) and see if it will stick. The other thing to do is watch it. Watch and wait. Once it starts to molt, you can use a pin or maybe your fingernail and hold the back end down. The hard part is NOT pinning the new caterpillar underneath. This is not easy and I have failed many times. So the best thing to do is let molting caterpillars lie.

I just watched "Jurassic Park II: Lost World" in preparation for the new movie. And there's a pretty good lesson there about how nature doesn't need our help, and would probably do great if we disappeared entirely. Which leads to some plot holes because if a hobbyist who raises butterflies can figure this out, shouldn't actual professionals already know this? Anyway, when I was new at this, I didn't really know how to tell if a caterpillar was molting. I'm not even sure I knew they molted. So when I saw them sitting in one place for a long time, I would get worried they weren't eating and I would move them on to a leaf to get them to eat. And they would die. Didn't take me long to realize what I was doing and not do it anymore!

Well, my hockey team won which means my family will stop screaming. I had my headphones on during the movie so the only screaming was people running or being eaten by dinosaurs. Mom has baseball coming up since we're playing on the West Coast so I may have to keep her calm. Oh, and the horsie won the Triple Crown! Thumbs up
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Jun 6, 2015 8:26 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
It's 2 Buckeye cats Melanie. I can be patient so when it just hung out I figured there was a reason & wasn't going to panic unless that went all the way into tomorrow. I imagine the reason they eat the skin is it's protein. Spiders eat their webs -- pure protein. Makes sense right?
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Jun 6, 2015 8:35 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Buckeyes! Duh! It's been a long day. I think they also eat the skin to keep predators away. Caterpillars are very much a "leave no evidence" kind of creature. The lengths they go to just to hide their frass often cracks me up.
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Jun 6, 2015 8:49 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Tell us how they hide their frass.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Jun 6, 2015 9:08 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Well, they don't always, but when they do, it's more like they get rid of the evidence. The Long-Tailed Skipper (and I think some other skippers) have the ability to shoot their frass a distance equal to thirty times their body length. It's like their anus is a frass cannon. Rolling on the floor laughing This is why they keep me up at night when I have them in plastic containers. I can hear the frass pinging off the side. Other caterpillars, like the Spicebush and other leaf-shelter builders, simply stick the tail end over the leaf, poo, and then tuck their tail back in. Others will pick up their frass with their jaws and throw it away. Getting rid of any trace of their presence keeps predators (and me) from finding them. Of course, I have other tricks up my sleeve.

And see, that part about picking up the frass with the jaws has always made me wonder. A lot of books will say that Zebra Swallowtails are cannibals and eat each other. Now, as my favorite butterfly, I have raised more than my fair share of these caterpillars. I have never seen one eat another. What I have seen is them run into each other, one will pick up the other with their jaws, and throw them. Caterpillars don't have great eyesight so I think they don't actually recognize another caterpillar. Or if they do, they just think it's competition or a predator and they defend themselves. And so they treat it as they do a piece of frass they need to discard. If they ate each other, I wouldn't find the wounded bodies of the caterpillar loser while the other ones strutted around like usual. I think they're just dumb, to be honest. Also, they tend to exhibit this behavior in the 2nd and 3rd instars, mostly. I'm very careful to separate them at that age and not overcrowd the tanks. The tiny guys and the big guys are pretty chill.
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Jun 7, 2015 6:12 AM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Beekeeper Bee Lover Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Cottage Gardener Herbs Wild Plant Hunter
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
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resting on my screen
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Jun 7, 2015 7:09 AM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Cinda, great shots of that is a neat looking moth!
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Jun 7, 2015 11:08 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Love that Polyphemus! Look at those big, feathery antenna! Awesome photos! I tip my hat to you.
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Jun 7, 2015 12:19 PM CST
Name: Meredith
Atlanta (Zone 8a)
Butterflies Region: Georgia Hummingbirder Seed Starter
Sharing some weekend pics just for fun. American lady (American ladies have 2 eyes, painted ladies have 4....), silver-spotted skipper, Eastern tiger swallowtail, buckeye, azure.
Smiling
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I love butterfly gardening & am active in NABA. Please visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/group... & website nabageorgia.weebly.com.
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Jun 7, 2015 12:25 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Cinda how cool!!!! Great shot!

Very interesting Melanie not only about the different ways they hide the frass but also about the ZST's using their jaws & throwing each other around.
Yes, there is a lot of misinformation out there about any subject you want to pick. Someone makes a supposition based on something they saw or *heard* & then it gets promulgated over & over again & goes down as gospel. I always ask myself who was this that said such & such, how observant are they, did they make a rash conclusion, did they consider all the possibilities, did they consider they may be wrong, did they ask themselves if they had all the pieces of the puzzle and so forth.

I put a great deal of stock in what you write because I've seen over time that you DO ask yourself those questions. And lots of times you specify this is just what you think based on your observations but it could be this or that or something or other. And I know that you observe a GREAT DEAL of the time & piece things together not just from one incident but from years of observations. And last but not least I really appreciate it when someone is not so conceited that they can actually say those 4 little words that seem so difficult for most people to say: I COULD BE WRONG. Thank goodness you have the ability to say them.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Jun 7, 2015 12:27 PM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Wonderful Meredith!!! I just love those ringed antennae & legs on the azures. So cute!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
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Jun 7, 2015 3:53 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Thanks, Ann! I do indeed spend a lot of time watching caterpillars. You know, it's funny, I remember back in school we were learning about different ways of obtaining information and simple observation was one. And I thought that sounded really boring and that the scientific method was a much better way to learn things. And then I started raising caterpillars! I have literally sat for hours watching them do things. And more hours waiting for them to do things. It seems like it took forever to see them reach those milestones like molting, making a chrysalis, and emerging as a butterfly. I remember nights I fought to stay awake to see stuff happen only to fail myself.

I had a teacher back in high school who had a PhD in philosophy (I was in the International Baccalaureate program) and he was a strange guy. He used to challenge us all to turn off our TVs; I can't even imagine how he dealt with students once smartphones came out. He used to yell at us a lot about watching nature instead. I remember one day it happened to be the equinox and he gave this whole talk about how people used to watch nature before there were televisions and he explained how they would watch the sun all year long. I looked him up on Facebook recently and he's really into birding. And every time I sit around staring at butterflies and caterpillars, it makes me wonder what he'd think of that!

And observation is so important because it's best to know what caterpillars normally do before you go experimenting on them. And then you can experiment on them! Sometimes it's just to see what foods they will accept in captivity but there is so much research going on these days! Better solar panels from studying wing scales and such.

Meredith, that is quite the collection of butterflies! I just checked my records at BAMONA and I saw a Spring Azure years ago in WV and then I saw a Summer Azure last year in KY at the family cemetery. And I see you have the American Lady and the Painted Lady figured out! Very good! Also, that seems to be a male Tiger ST (not so much blue on them as the females) but send it down here anyway!
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Jun 7, 2015 4:24 PM CST
Name: Meredith
Atlanta (Zone 8a)
Butterflies Region: Georgia Hummingbirder Seed Starter
Ok, only you all would appreciate this --- drum roll -- you know that thrill when you see IN YOUR YARD - a new species?! So I saw a PIPEVINE Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!

Of course I scared it. I have GOT to be a better observer. SIGH. Bad pics. But I am deliriously happy.

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I love butterfly gardening & am active in NABA. Please visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/group... & website nabageorgia.weebly.com.
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Jun 7, 2015 4:53 PM CST
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Morning Glories Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants Butterflies Garden Photography
Wow! You guys have been pretty chatty on the one day I missed. Wonderful photos everyone.

Melanie great information as usual. Thumbs up

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