Thank you Catmint.

I do want to thank every single one of you who tried to help solve this. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for hanging in there!

I was mostly an observer. It's really nice how people stepped in and tried to help!!

You understood all that?

Another possibility, Hieracium scabrum - Rough Hawkweed (and the leaves are rough). There are varieties of that species although it usually has dark stipitate glands on the peduncles and inflorescence branches.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/23...

How about Hieracium gronovii x H. scabrum?

https://books.google.co.uk/boo...

The differences between the two species are that H. gronovii has only a few scattered leaves up the stems where H. scabrum has them all the way up.

Look under No. 4 H. gronovii which includes H. x marianum, it mentions the number of leaves on the stem being (2-) 3-6 leaves.

https://books.google.co.uk/boo...

There's way more leaves on the stem of your plant. I still reserve judgement, it could easily be a cross.

More descriptions ..

https://books.google.co.uk/boo...

JRsbugs said:You understood all that?

nope, I understood very little! Which is why I say I was mostly an observer. Sorry if it sounded as though I was taking credit for something that I didn't intend to take credit for.

Sorry--was just trying to be supportive.
Sorry if it wasn't perceived that way.

I'm sure you all will figure out what it is! Good luck.

JRsbugs said:You understood all that?

I told you I picked it all apart. I looked up each & every botanical definition -- uh, in other words -- every word & translated it.

Catmint20906 said:Sorry--was just trying to be supportive.
Sorry if it wasn't perceived that way.

I'm sure you all will figure out what it is! Good luck.

I think Janet was talking to me Catmint.

Yes I was referring to Ann, no need for apologise Catmint.

Ann, the trouble with keys is we can totally misunderstand some terminology, often it's down to the perception of the person who wrote the keys but unless you are used to trying to decipher keys and knowing what is meant it can be confusing.

Keys have to be taken in the order they are given, that is you can't generally skip from one point to the next as each step is meant to lead you in the correct direction. I looked at the keys for Hieracium, stumped at the first step, you need to be able to determine the 'pappi'.

http://www.efloras.org/florata...

JRsbugs said:
Another possibility, Hieracium scabrum - Rough Hawkweed (and the leaves are rough). There are varieties of that species although it usually has dark stipitate glands on the peduncles and inflorescence branches.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/23...

On pg. 182 it states:
[In their extremes these four variants appear so different that they might, to some botanists, seem to be distinct species; but in the essential characters of the inflorescence, including the involucre and achenes. they appear inseparable, and their differential characteristics ARE MERELY SOMEWHAT LOCALIZED RECOMBINATIONS OF A SERIES OF VARIABLE TENDENCIES OF THE PUBESCENCE.]
This is not even talking about the plant in FL nor in GA even.

Further, as to H. scabrum vs H. gronovii; as is pointed out in this link you gave:
https://books.google.co.uk/boo...
Read that first part under #4 there. And then where it clearly states that H. scabrum & H. gronovii can be separated by flower number per capitulum with H. gronovii having 20 - 40 per and H. scabrum 40 - 100 per. I went out & counted & my plant clearly demonstrate H. gronovii in flower number per capitulum.

As to the last reference you cite I will only say that one can find references to support just about anything. This is just a book. Granted Roger Tory Peterson was a respected naturalist & certainly a great ornithologist; that does not make him a botanist. This book was published in 1968 Let me relate something that I found while researching this plant -- in particular H. gronovii ~~~ I found 3 or 4 references that one would tend to put stock in that stated that this plant has CLEAR sap. I will stick with the experts and state that everything that is written in a book or on the internet is not gospel.

This is not even talking about the plant in FL nor in GA even

That doesn't matter, the point is it shows there are variations which could be possible anywhere.

I read the part about "flower number per capitulum", my point is that variations can vary in many ways and so can crosses between species.

Figures vary anyway, and as you so rightly state, "one can find references to support just about anything" which I guess goes for here too.

Hieracium scabrum: Florets (30–)40–60+;

http://www.efloras.org/florata...

Hieracium gronovii: Florets 12–20+

http://www.efloras.org/florata...

I will stick with the experts and state that everything that is written in a book or on the internet is not gospel.

And we are on the internet.

My point is, unless there is clear evidence I would always exercise caution. Using a microscope and keys with the specific parts of the plant is the only way to say for sure, even then it can often be down to interpretation. Some plants are just not that easily identified.

Florets are 14 on one bloom that I just pulled apart with my tweezers.

OK thanks for the clarification!

I have decided to put this in the parent plant Hieracium. I am positive it is Hieracium but a tiny doubt remains that it is gronovii.

It is a tough one!!! Do you think it might possibly be Hieracium scabrum? Just wondering because I recall seeing a picture of one where the leaves had those little teeth on the margin, like yours... not to stir things up again but where is that picture!?

I think its here - https://www.minnesotawildflowe...

I am pretty sure I already checked that but will look at it again.