James - So your issue with pods is not to waste good pollen on a pod that won't produce seeds?

Maurice - The sharp razor idea makes sense.

Thank you for your information about pod vs. pollen plant traits showing up in seedlings.

I can imagine that with tets that it likely doesn't favor pod over pollen for genetics being passed on. Diploids I often wonder about, though.

James - So your issue with pods is not to waste good pollen on a pod that won't produce seeds?

Maurice - The sharp razor idea makes sense.

Thank you for your information about pod vs. pollen plant traits showing up in seedlings.

I wonder if the number of chromosomes matters in the issue of a pod over pollen for genetics being passed on? Diploids I often wonder about.

It has never made a difference to me whether the parent is pod or pollen. I use selected pollen parents and take their pollen all over the garden. My hybridizing objectives are not very narrow as I like all shapes, sizes, and colors of flowers. I want good performers and outstanding garden plants with pretty and unique faces. I have been known to take pollen from a selected parent to blooms all over the garden. I have 1500+ seedlings from last year (2014) from 3 patterned pollen parents. There are probably 150 different pod parents of all colors, sizes, and shapes. Nothing scientific about anything I do. I will make the crosses that nobody else is making using older cultivars with newer pollen parents. I am not saying that is good or bad just that I am out there doing whatever. I like collecting DL's from the past and when I get them I cross them. It makes no difference to me if they never made an introduction.

Kidfishing, you certainly sound a lot like the way I hybridize although I do concentrate more on diploid spiders and ufo's. But, when Lillians Vapor Trail bloomed, I put its pollen on everything. I too am concentrating on crosses with older cultivars because they seem to increase better and are super hardy.

Although it does have several children, STARTLE has been a difficult pod parent for me. When it does set a pod, it gives very few seeds. I once read that it was nocturnal which could be the problem.

beckygardener said:James - So your issue with pods is not to waste good pollen on a pod that won't produce seeds?

In essence. I do my pollinating in the morning before work, so if I know something won't set and can readily move on, it really helps.

I've tried pretty much everything I have on Francis of Assisi and Malihini to no avail. They set pods but they shrivel up right away. They also seem to be pollen sterile for me.

My Smoky Mountain Autumn also sets pods that shrivel up. The pollen seems to work but every pod I make using the pollen opens before the seeds are ripe. Pity because it is such a pretty flower and I think it was a bud builder for me this year.

Steve...so good to see you on ATP. Big welcome. This topic is interesting for those of us who hybridize. For me, I dab pollen in the late afternoon around 4ish or later. Great success with pod formation this past summer. Like Kidfishing stated, I will use older plants that I love with the new genetics from plants purchased more recently. Since I don't have a green house, my biggest headache living in Vermont is the length of time it takes to get a seed, to a sdlg., to a plant, to a flower to make those crosses. Seedlings can take a year or four in the worse case scenario. This past summer was the best one for me for pod formation. Even first year sdlgs. that bloomed for the first time produced pods for me well into September. 'Four Eyes' is not sterile, Steve. Try dabbing pollen much later in the day or perhaps moving the plant to a new location in your garden. Or as Char states, as a last resort, threaten to cull it to the compost heap.

Alex,

Thanks for the info. Just so you know, I kept looking at you, then UNDEFINABLE, and then you, and then UNDEFINABLE on the LA. I decided to order directly, and not create a bloodbath...lol.

Yes, seed to seedlings is a long process for me too, but I love the fact that this hobby continually keeps looking forward. Is a great way to live each day.

Steve

Seed to seedling can be a long process for some of us, but once you start planting each year and get past the 2 year start up wait there will be new seedlings blooming each year after.

Thought of two more difficult pod setters...Sigourney and Tall Blonde.
Sigourney will set but aborts. I have hit it every year and hope one day she will be in the mood to grow out a pod with even one viable seed. Pollen is almost as difficult, but not impossible and the seedlings are much easier to use.
Tall Blonde, love this bloom, will not set even with various tricks to try and get the deed done. I have used the pollen on a few select crosses with good seed results.

Steve: You made a wise choice going right to Nicole for 'Undefinable'. It was sold out the last time I checked her site. Now she is offering some fans again. I had my hands full with one bidder who was determined to outbid me. ugh! Truthfully, it's one of a handful of daylilies I coveted next Spring as an addition to my garden. Truly unique, and so is the price tag. I do appreciate your thoughtful consideration, Steve. You made me laugh.

I live for my seedlings, and so I want them to grow and bloom as fast as they possibly can. At my age, there is little time to waste, and with all the loving effort that goes into each cycle of there growth, I am cheering them on to bloom. Just to see that first sdlg. flower...it's a powerful rush!

Isn't it possible that some plants, like some people, are simply not compatible for whatever reason? And if all else fails, use the old trick of sticking the thin cocktail stick in the pistal after you have pollinated to make sure the pollen doesn't fall out. But still there are no guarantees.

ARoseblush said: And if all else fails, use the old trick of sticking the thin cocktail stick in the pistal after you have pollinated to make sure the pollen doesn't fall out. But still there are no guarantees.

Given how pollen works it would seem more likely to damage the process to me. The pollen grain sticks on the stigma, germinates there and produces a tube that grows down the hollow style and enters the ovary/ovules, delivering the sperm cells. The pollen grain itself doesn't travel down the style. So wouldn't the cocktail stick tend to damage any tubes that have started growing, unless maybe the sperm cells have already got far enough down with the tube? There's not really anything that could fall out, it seems to me......

Alex,

I am hoping since the website accepted my order that I was successful.

And I don't think it would be wise for me to be drinking and hybridizing at 6AM....lol. I trust Sue with the scientific answer ALWAYS, but if you are looking for complete nonsense, I am your guy...lol.

Steve

Ahead said:
I am hoping since the website accepted my order that I was successful.

That's how I got it last year. A wing, a prayer, and just placing the order!

Sue: I hope you know that I was just kidding about the cocktail stick!! But I actually have seen this technique used by a member here on ATP. I hadn't a clue what this member was displaying in their picture, so I asked. The member explained that it was a technique to assure pollination into pods. Said it worked for her almost every time. I was a new member back then, so I just scratched my head, and let it pass. But I never forgot that crazy picture of daylily blooms and cocktail sticks!

Thanks for clarifying, Alex! No, I wasn't sure if you were kidding, given that many people do think that the pollen grain itself goes down the pistil, so you got me going there

Ahead said:Alex,

Thanks for the info. Just so you know, I kept looking at you, then UNDEFINABLE, and then you, and then UNDEFINABLE on the LA. I decided to order directly, and not create a bloodbath...lol.

Yes, seed to seedlings is a long process for me too, but I love the fact that this hobby continually keeps looking forward. Is a great way to live each day.

Steve

I did the same thing, I saw that listing on LA, I rather get it right from her. Now spring needs to hurry up.

Sometimes if you have a difficult pod setter you can put it's own pollen or something you know to be stud pollen (even if you don't really want that cross) to get the plant in the mood. Seems like once it sets one pod it's likely to set more.

If you live in areas with high temps it's important to at least know which plants are difficult pod setters. I aim to have my crossing done before the temps rise above 85*. That is often 10 in the morning and when you've got hundreds of blooms it's a job! My own Mach One has never set a pod for me. It has also never stayed in one place for long enough to come to clump strength so I have one or two plants I will not move until I see what it does. I also plant to pot up a couple of plants and bring them into the garage where it's cooler to see if that works.

I once heard Dan Trimmer suggest you bring them into the air conditioned house, light some candles and put on mood music to see if that will do the trick.

Leslie.....There is a lot to be said about, setting a mood and 'foreplay'! (Oh no, did I just say that?)