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Mar 17, 2016 2:02 PM CST
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Some people don't like the plants or gardens here at all which seems Avery odd thing to me. At least to on the ad hoc committee have said this is a cemetery and not a garden. That's some of the problem. The group who curate the rose collection have plans but deadlines make it more difficult. I think the attention of the next level beuracrats has shed new light on the whole situation with the roses ar least. I think the rose must be the top dog in the flower popularity contest. I'm more of a 'one of everything please' gardener. The importance of this collection is key to the issue and everyone should consider that carefully. I think they are now doing just that. We'll see. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Mar 17, 2016 3:12 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
The roses are probably considered the "top dog" because many are so rare. Also, the rose garden has been host to many influential rosarians from around the world, so it has a presence far beyond the local community.

Whoever is saying that the cemetery is not a garden, needs to check out the history of the cemetery. It was planned to be a garden/park from the very beginning.

Here's an article that talks about the Sacramento Cemetery as being a "garden cemetery" back in the 1800s and early 1900s

http://www.helpmefind.com/gard...
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Mar 17, 2016 4:40 PM CST
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
I tip my hat to you. That just says it all so eloquently. Thanks for posting that Lynn. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Mar 17, 2016 6:50 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Raises cows Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Texas Plant Identifier
@RoseBlush1 What a great link! Thanks.
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Mar 17, 2016 7:44 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
The rose garden may have gotten the most recognition over the years, but I think all of the gardens in the cemetery are wonderful.

Yes, roses are my first love, but there really is so much more going on in the other gardens, too. This administrative decision is going to impact the other gardens, too.

When I stop and think of how just a few people chose to work to change a decrepit eye sore into a place of beauty and all of the volunteer labor to maintain it, I think it is sickening that someone would say some of the things Leslie has reported in this thread. Actually, I think, "How dare they ?"

The cemetery gardens are incredible and make such a statement about how important plants and gardens have been and still are important to all of us.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Mar 18, 2016 8:27 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Seems like things are happening.

https://redneckrosarian.wordpr...

If you read the comments, you will see that Connie Hartwood has gotten involved. She is the manager of the historic rose collection at Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, Virginia, which has been listed on the National Register for decades and can debunk a lot of the arguments that the changes are mandated due to the designation of the Sacramento Cemetery as a historic site.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Mar 18, 2016 8:36 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
For those of you who are not familiar with the Sacramento Historic Rose Garden, here is a link to some photos taken by a friend who is a professional photographer and a rose nut.

http://www.justourpictures.com...
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Mar 19, 2016 10:12 AM CST
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Oh Lyn, thank you so much for posting those links! Those pictures are incredible! Could I save those pictures on my computer? (assuming I can even figure out how to do such a thing? Blinking )
Could we use those photos in our database here?
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Mar 19, 2016 10:20 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Cindi ...

The proper thing to do is to contact the owners of Just Our Pictures for permission. They used to sell their rose photos for catalogs, but they do offer many of their photos for free for screen savers.

Those photos were taken when the garden was younger than it is today. Isn't it a beautiful garden ?
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Mar 28, 2016 5:20 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Raises cows Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Texas Plant Identifier
This is still making the international rounds on Facebook. This link came to my attention from an Australian FB friend. Last week there were posts from Japan and Italy. Anyway, there's another video here. The cemetery looks so nice as it is to me. It sounds like a group of volunteers brought the cemetery to its current state from one of neglect and now that it has gained attention, city authorities have decided to run the show their way. Not a good way to encourage volunteerism, I would think. http://www.sacbee.com/entertai...
Donald
Last edited by needrain Mar 28, 2016 5:25 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for AlyssaBlue
Mar 28, 2016 2:58 PM CST
Ohio (Zone 5b)
Plant Identifier
Kind of late reading this thread, but what a raw deal! Especially for people with relatives buried there. Too much overreach by people who should let it be! If California is so worried about making the landscape beautiful and to "save" things, they should save the roses. So let's see, they "saved" that little fish and stopped water from getting to the farmers...I think it was the delta smelt.

The roses are such a gorgeous tribute for the people buried in the cemetery- I hope someone steps in and stops the madness. It should be a historical landmark, and cannot be touched by new "rules".

Things like this are ridiculous and take away beautiful things that people enjoy. #savetheroses
Last edited by AlyssaBlue Mar 28, 2016 8:07 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 28, 2016 11:41 PM CST
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
The Old City Cemetery Committee's master plan has always had as one of their goals, to be on the National Register of Historic Places. The Center for Sacramento History wrote up the proposal and it was approved. With that goal achieved it brought much with it. That included another city agency all to do with preservation and the responsibilities as follows.

The Preservation Director's responsibilities are:

Oversee the operation of the city's historic preservation program and staff in the identification, protection and assistance in the preservation of Sacramento's Historic Resources.

Advise the city and its various entities and staff on historic preservation issues, including rehabilitation standards and historic resources surveys.

Preliminary determinations as to a property's eligibility for listing in the Sacramento Register of Historic and Cultural Resources.
Maintain the Sacramento Register.

Review and approve site plan and design review projects that are located in an historic district and/or involve a landmark structure.

The Cemetery is now an historic district. They are trying to do that job. The volunteers were given no voice in the planting guidelines nor was the add-hock committee of volunteers involved in the formulation of these guidelines. Naturally they made them easy to apply. Very simple and straight forward. They basically boil down to this. Nothing touching or blocking the view of, from any approach, any monument or headstone. Nothing over the edge of any hardscape. No structures or supports of any kind. As you can imagine, these are hardly condusive to any plants but short muffin shaped plants with a bare area between them and all the hardscape. The City says they want the gardens there but the guidelines don't give that impression. Some of the volunteers spoke to the press as a last resort and it's been chaotic since. The hue and cry of mass emails from around the world and meetings with the next level of city officials has but things on hold for the time being but has left some of us in limbo and on the naughty list. Now we wait. But your right about volunteers feeling discouraged Donald @needrain and your correct also @Alyssablue it is madness. The cemetery has been revitalized by a core of volunteers for more than two decades. They have raised funds to fix what was broken.They have inventoried and catalogued all those buried here along with there monuments photographed. All the documents have been scanned and uploaded to a database built by a volunteer. All accessible from the website they pay for. And the local plant clubs have been enlisted long ago to help to beautify this place and they along with other volunteers have done substantial parts of the 30 acres here. The head butting is over but those relationships between the city and volunteers will be hard to mend I think. Even the volunteers have been add odds amongst themselves over this issue and the ensuing air of tension. We need the city counsel to step up along with the preservation board to hammer out a solution that is best for the public. To keep the cemetery relevant to the community at large. If we can save the supports for the roses that would be a major step in the right direction. I'm hopeful that more thoughtful minds will find the guidelines as needlessly rigid as I do. I tip my hat to you. Sorry this is so lengthy......I could go on and on about this and that and the other but I see i've done that already.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Avatar for AlyssaBlue
Mar 29, 2016 7:51 AM CST
Ohio (Zone 5b)
Plant Identifier
Hamilton Square- So the fact that the cemetery was registered, was actually the problem because it allowed for bureaucracy to take over. Well how's that for trying to do the right thing? I was under the impression a historical site cannot be changed on a whim. That said, I used to live in CA and I guess it's not surprising....

This actually reminds me of what the council is trying to do in Dana Point. The council would like to "revitalize" the harbor by adding a parking garage and make all the store fronts appear the same. No one else thinks it's a good idea, and there's been a lot of push back. That push back has slowed the revitalization to a standstill, but someone keeps putting it on the table, hoping it will work.

The naughty list? I find that humorous only because I would've thought someone trying remove years of volunteer work and magnificent rose specimens would be the ones on the naughty list. Publicity is the rose's friend... Big Grin

Cheers to the volunteers!!! Hurray!
Avatar for Calsurf73
Mar 29, 2016 9:35 AM CST
Name: Mike
Long Beach, Ca.
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Roses Hummingbirder Farmer Daylilies
Birds Cat Lover Region: California Bulbs Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
Leslieray: No need to apologize for the length of your post. It's extremely informative and I was completely unaware of this situation until you started this thread.
I actually visited that cemetery a few years back and found it enchanting...but this was before the roses became "the enemy" so to speak.
As they say, "You can't fight City Hall".
I agree with AlyssaBlue : Cheers to the volunteers.
Avatar for AlyssaBlue
Mar 30, 2016 7:58 AM CST
Ohio (Zone 5b)
Plant Identifier
Just wondering, has anyone calculated the actual $$ value of the gardens and the value it provides to the city? Availability, size of plant, length of growing time to achieve current state, amount of hours tended, the value the volunteers bring to the table and how much savings they provide to the city, tourism provided to city and local businesses etc? Bring together the history of the cemetery and the roses and the two seem inseparable and of high value to the city. Facts. Lots of facts.
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Mar 30, 2016 10:14 AM CST
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
This is all a consideration of course. But the preservation standards seem to trump all to this point and that is what we're trying to get reevaluated. Next stop is the City Preservation Council meeting on the 13th but they don't set their agenda until the week before. We don't know yet if our issues are on the agenda. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
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Apr 8, 2016 6:08 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Raises cows Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Texas Plant Identifier
Here's another video that showed up in my newsfeed on Facebook this morning - via an Australian friend: http://www.kcra.com/news/local...

I wonder if this video is of blooms in 2016? Be sure and check out the photos following the video. I'm skeptical that roses are doing the kind of damage the fellow in the video describes. Ivy or vines that attach might do what he describes, but I doubt roses would. The visible damage to the monuments seen in the video and photos is clearly vandal damage - probably from when the cemetery was neglected in years past.
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Apr 8, 2016 7:40 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
No, roses don't do that kind of damage.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Apr 8, 2016 10:04 AM CST
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
This was filmed in part yesterday. The cuts with Anita Clevenger were from another day. As for the photos...they were odd. The rose garden is in full bloom the flowers are fresh and perky. There are over 500 roses. Those photos chosen downplayed the view of that. The story had a particular slant because it was set up by the city. The discoloration he mentioned occurs on the hardscape in every cemetery plants or no plants. The biological growth occurs naturally. Lichens, mosses etc occur. There has been no damage to the plots because of the roses. There are trees that have done so over the last 100 years. It was a poorly staged shot from the same people who made the planting guidelines. Tomorrow is an event day for us. It's Open Garden Day. All three major gardens will be staffed by volunteers to show the public around and the Rose Garden has a sale of about 500 roses they propagated from the roses here. It is one of two large fundraisers of the year. Those funds go to restorations. 99% of the photos I posted on ATP are from these three gardens and others spots that have been adopted by volunteers. They also walked through my area yesterday and did say it looked very nice. Very mixed messages here. There are many plants that are not inline with the guidelines. Seems it's the roses they are after at the moment. I tip my hat to you. Edited to add this panorama of about one quarter of the rose garden this morning.



Thumb of 2016-04-08/HamiltonSquare/7aef3e
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Last edited by HamiltonSquare Apr 8, 2016 1:00 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for Calsurf73
Apr 10, 2016 10:02 AM CST
Name: Mike
Long Beach, Ca.
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Roses Hummingbirder Farmer Daylilies
Birds Cat Lover Region: California Bulbs Butterflies Garden Ideas: Level 1
So, how did your Open Garden Day turn out ?
I hope it was a huge success.

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