@goedric Jeff,
There is a least one person who buys all the latest and greatest daylilies and makes crosses, but NEVER plants the seeds or grows them out. It's only done to provide the seeds and offset the cost (somewhat) of obtaining those latest and greatest acquisitions. I think there are several smaller backyard operations that fall in that category to some degree. They don't have the space to raise a lot of plants and daylilies tend to be generous about providing seeds. I think if there is positive feedback on the LA, especially over a period of time, then you are probably obtaining legitimate crosses. Also, I think usually when $$$ are being thrown in the direction of a cross, the buyers are familiar with the seller and may even know them personally in may cases. IMO.

I think you could probably ask on this forum and quite often find information on the sellers, too.

@goedric

Jeff

I can understand your concerns. However it is very possible that some only sell seed. It is after all a lot easier to collect seed vs digging, lining out and then process CVs for shipping. Some seller, pending on the time of year will also switch from selling fans to selling seed only. Some seeds are going for big $$$s due to shipping restrictions to Europe for live plants.

As for that Gold vs Lead. Who knows what you're going to get from a seedling when it blooms. It's like that box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. Even with good parents and genetics, there are no guarantees that a seedling will be the next Stout winner. Some are dogs, some are treasures. Personally, I haven’t seen very many ugly daylily's.

Okay, for the reputable sellers and granted I have only purchased from a couple folks on the LA, I have always been satisfied. And as for most sellers, I believe that you'll find that most are A++++ and that there may only be a couple bad apples. I believe that Mike L. has weeded most of those bad cases out and have blocked them from selling.

That said, If you ever have an issue with the product you get, there are avenues to make it right. Most reputable sellers and I believe most of them to be, will work with you to make sure you are satisfied with the product received.

Good luck with your new hobby. Be careful it is highly addictive!

All good questions, Jeff....and many good answers, folks!

I think the lack of intros/plants being sold is a non issue. Seed sellers have never claimed to be anything else. Most keep some seeds back from the auction, and grow them out. I keep around 400 or so per year. It helps me check germination rates, and pursue the areas I am personally interested in. Some plants I purchase are for seed selling period, others are to further my own lines.

I remember when BASS GIBSON came out....a perfect toothy daylily in every possible way, but I was not into teeth at that time, so I joyfully made as many toothy crosses as I could, all for the purpose of selling seeds. Nothing feels better than to sell a cross for a lot of money, and having no interest in the cross...lol.

In terms of gold vs lead...even a seemingly gold cross can produce lead results, but for the most part look for these things on the Lily Auction:

1- Length of service is a plus in that fraudulent sellers don't last that long on the auction. Folks talk, forums discuss, and Mike Longo runs a very good house.

2- If you only see hybridizer's pictures of a cultivar, and none from the seller, than you could be heading for a lead result, not because of fraud, but because the plants in question may not be all that great. First year images can be excused, but year after year of only hybridizer's pictures raise a red flag to me.

3- If the cross seems too good to be true, then it maybe because it's not true. I can't tell you how many dream crosses I have wanted to make, but because of the pod fertility of the plant, I have been unable to make a successful cross. My own CLOWN PANTS and VICTORIA JOSEPHINE are very difficult pod setters (1-only for VJ, and only two on CP....both from this year). So...when I see a cross with a difficult pod setter, I become suspicious. Not that it can't happen, but when I see seed after seed being sold....then I begin to wonder. MEGATRON, GREYWOODS COWGIRL CASANOVA, CLOWN PANTS all set pods for the first time this year....so,it can happen, but it shouldn't be a normal occurrence.

4- Ask around. If folks continue to get seedlings from a buyer that look nothing like either parent, you can be sure that those folks are talking. I urge caution when discussing things on a forum, because a reputation can be destroyed instantly these days, but ask around...be inquisitive.

It is normal to question things like seed buying. It takes a tremendous amount of trust that must be earned over time between the seller and the buyer. The Lily Auction has been a perfect place to get both parties together, in my opinion. Good luck!

Steve

Oh, and start small for heaven's sake....lol.

I re read that three times...its so so true. I even asked someone this year about a cross, as I could never get pod on said parent. And the picture comment. . Well, with it all.

Steve, nice going on the flood seeds!

Jeff, I was a newcomer when I started buying seeds back in fall 2015. I had your concerns too about getting seeds from bogus crosses and paid a very high price for them thinking that they were true to name. I bought from many sellers and I believe that I got played by 2 sellers (so far anyway because some of their seeds bloomed this year) I won't name them here. If you want to know, treemail me. But I can tell you who I am really happy buying from and their seeds bloom flowers that look somewhat like their parents.

Ahead
Daylpp
Rich
Cottonsnag
Drw

I bought from others too but the seedlings have not bloomed yet so I cannot list their names here. I think I can add more names next year when more seedlings bloom. Ahead's advice above are right on. Good luck and if your instincts say that something is too good to be true, it probably is.

Potteryboy; Bennett, Scott
jbenz; Benz, John
Pinebeltman; Boykin, Henry
bellaflora; Brooker, Gerda
Boxcar; Buntyn, Hugh
Dablaw; Burris, David
davi; Davison, Judy
Cindy; Dye, Cindy
pigeonbob; Faulkner, Bob
gran; Gaskins, Mary
Gibby; Gibson, Donna
Daylilyjoe; Gordeau, Joe
jgossard; Gossard, Jamie
Golfer; Grace, Larry
Mike144mann; Grossmann, Mike
NDL; Harry, Nicole
Earthstar; Hartsell, Ed
Goldcoast; Holley, Stan and Bonnie
Queenlily2; Jeffcoat, Jim and Peggy
Thankyou; LaPrise, Ellen
lovelandlp; Loveland, Pat
Westend; Maddox, Tommy
Spunky1; Manning, Fred
Bubbles; Meadows, Mary Jane
Daredevil; Michaels, Linda
Buck; Miller, Michael
Perennialist; Miner, Keith
Jimary; Netherton, Jim and Mary
Ashwoody; Norris, Richard
pjinpa; Owen, Paul
Fishman; Phelps, Herbie
hawkeye; Pickles, Lee
efland; Piotrowski, Greg
Tbear; Polston, J.T.
OldFool; Reilly, Phil
Cosmos; Reinke, Bill and Joyce
Annette's Magic; Rice, Annette
Ruby; Sherman, Dale and Cindy
Celestial; Stadler, J.D.
naturesedge; Story, Gayle
JRT; Townsend, James
Lilybee; Waldrop, Bill
Vino; White, Dan
Daybloomer; Wilkerson, Nan
Lighthousegal, Tyrrell, Cindy
Tree_Climber, Kathy.
mollyd1953. We're RainDog.
Wagsworld - John Wagner
Charles Plalisance: Redcajun
Mike Morri: Cliviacreations
David Gillette: Artdalton
ceb - Charlie Baker
sybiltwo - cataddict
pcphysicians- Blanton, JR
mysticmeadows- Hoffman, Pam
dwm- Mussar, Dave
Bonibrae- Matthie, Barry
Valleydan- Bachman, Dan
Bj- Chandler, Emma
Bigstump; Helen Wheeler
Ahead = Steve Todd
Softballkid4U & "Angelo", Angelo Brunetti
Packrat = Randy & Cindy Fleming
Tragar = (Rogers Garden)
Lightman = Wayne and Jo Taunton
Curve = Curvin and Carol Miller

This is an old list...2009. Its a place to start, altho there are many good sellers that came after this list.

Alas! Runningfox for seeds and plants. Great lady and communicator. Claudia and Dave.

In addition to the ones Karen @kousa listed above (Ahead-Steve Todd, cottosnag-Cheryl Otto, & Rich-Rich Howard) I have also bought from and have been pleased with the following sellers ( * indicates I have bloomed seedlings from crosses sold to me)

*Emery (Reggie Morgan)
Spunky1 (Fred Manning--also a member here)
Pillow (Jerry Pillow)
JWWC (James Clancy)
*Mthrnatur (Randy Griffin)
*Brianbender (Brian Bender)
*Mainstreet (Christel Wolker)
*Plarsen (Pat Larsen)
*Lighthousegal (Cindy Tyrell--also a member here)
Farawayflowers (Ramona Titus)
Markarmand (Mark Breaux)
Gardenfantasies7921 (Chris Lane)
Jagquest (Jo Ann Godwin)
Fstins1 (Ford Stinson)
Runningfox (Claudia Conway)
Spiderjoe (Joe Hawkins)
Curriesdaylilies (Paula Shaw)
*Starcrossedseeds (Judy Sweeney)
Naturesedge (Gayle Story)
Spiderfan (Coral Kincaid)
Mmbrickner (Michelle Brickner)
Ladylovingdove (Dorothy Parker)
Drich55 (David Richardson)

I can attest to the honesty of all the sellers that I have won auctions from except one. I had a complaint with one seller and Mike L. had the seller refund my money a year later. That seller is no longer on the LA.

I get blooms within the first to second year and I can say with all honesty that the seeds do grow into something that does resemble the parents. Not always in the actual bloom though, because the mixed genetics can sometimes produce something really interesting, but the resemblance in flower size, scape height, bloom colors and patterns, etc. do signify to me that the cross was correct.

And I have also gotten seeds that had a problem germinating and when I contacted the seller, I got my choice of a refund or replacement seeds. The replacement seeds were sometimes better than my original purchase, if the seller did not have any more seeds of the same cross.

I have been very happy with my LA seed wins since 2014. I don't typically purchase plants from the LA. I don't know why, I just don't. Well .... yes .... I do know why .... THIS NGA forum .... I have gotten some gorgeous plants from members here for far cheaper than I could have purchased anywhere else. Be sure to check out the Classified and Group Buys Forum. Some of the Daylily Forum members divide and sell daylilies annually and I've gotten some great plants for VERY reasonable!
Classified buys:
https://garden.org/forums/view...

I'm one of the seed only sellers "gramps"
The reason I do not sell plants or seedling is because I do not have the amount of land required to do it the right way.
Also I'm not all that interested in the digging and shipping aspect of daylilies.

I have been breeding for 25 plus years. I have over a 1000 plants going from clumps to new seedlings, I cull based on replacement value of need or a better performer.
My yard is composed of 70% of my own seedlings, here in Wisconsin it usually takes 3 years from sprout to bloom and another 2 years for full maturity.
I have many seedlings that I have flagged for potential registration, but in the 5 year window most of the time a newer seedling has bloomed out that I like even better so a flag gets moved to the new guy.
I have registered 8 plants so far and if I could do it over 4 of those wouldn't have been.

I should also add that I sell seeds from everything I have, seedling or purchased registrations, so unless it was a one pod setting plant I will list seeds.
I really see no reason to hold anything back as new seedlings or plants are blooming every year.
Plus I have some really great buyers who offer me a fan of something special back, not all, but a few.

Now for purchased plants, every year I spend more than what I budgeted for new stuff, and to be honest at least half of those will be given away or composted in 3 years or less because whatever the reason they looked like crap not even coming close to the hybridizers description or picture.
My most pained thought about a new purchase is when I realized that I culled out a seedling that was better than the plant I spent good money for, and it happens a lot more than what I would of hoped.

What I do is breed performance, new, or old, the goal is to get a good garden daylily with as pretty of a face as I can get.
I also try to breed away from faults, examples, hang up to something that never hangs up, short scape to a taller scape, low buds to high bud counts, good branching to low or compacted branching.
Blooms themselves are another thing altogether, many are crossed for traits like teeth, polychrome, eyes and edges, color blends, darks reds or purples, ruffles, or as simple of a no frill look as possible, UF, bicolor, pie crust, you name it.
The why the hell would I do that cross has to be made also, how are you ever going to know if you don't take a look, the kids are only a shovel away or the reward of a lifetime.

Over the 10 years of me selling seeds I have seen or been asked for just about everything possible, but in all honesty if something isn't in your own preference I'm not sure how you can make a cross without the passion of making that cross.

I only do Tetraploids, I'm not into doubles, beards, stipples, spotted,
I do not have any true spiders, had to make a decision on Tetraploid or Diploid, so I went Tet

Dad's Black Gold, new this year and bred to northern hardy teeth, even I get sucked into a pretty face. PS this is way better than what I expected, another one that was really good was Buddy's Vampire Lady re-bloomed 3 times

Dad's Black Gold

Ed - I enjoyed reading your post. Very informative.

Thanks Becky

, very interesting. Thanks, Ed!

Thanks Valerie

James high seed auction ended at $251.03. Impressive!

At first it seems like a heck of a lot of money for a few seeds, but then you figure that these 2 hard to acquire parent plants will produce probably something really unique and desirable, so then the price won't seem so high for several seedlings. I would love to see what those two cultivars produce together.

I couldn't help but wonder if the winning buyer/bidder was from the USA or another country.

Fascinating to watch that auction. I wonder what the highest priced win ever on the LA was (for seeds)?

James!!!


Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!

I think $251 would be near the top of all time bids for seeds. I remember back in the toothy day when seeds from "ruby" would regularly go for huge amounts, seems like it involved a seedling of theirs called "Hannibal". Folks went crazy.

And didn't Jamie Gossard pay a small fortune for some Bob Faulker seeds, and even mention on his website how every seedling was a winner, and even introduce a few of them. I can't recall the final bid, but it was in the $250 area I think.

Personally, I like to see it. Auctions are fun. It is entertaining to bid, or even just to watch! Do we always get what we paid for?? No....sometimes we get more.

I think the seed auctions in general have been mind boggling this year. So fun to watch and glad to see daylilies arent going anywhere anytime soon.
I saw people paying 90 plus yesterday for the same cross that went for 2.30 last year. Tried to get a cross for Ginny from Steve, but that went well over 100...more than the plant, and I never looked at the final bid.

I couldn't watch the end. I thought they would do well - but this was waaaaaay beyond my expectations!

Ahead said:
And didn't Jamie Gossard pay a small fortune for some Bob Faulker seeds, and even mention on his website how every seedling was a winner, and even introduce a few of them. I can't recall the final bid, but it was in the $250 area I think.

Yes - he bought the seeds that resulted, I believe, in Blue Eyes White Dragon, and Blue Bubble.

Seriously, folks.....these high flying auctions reflect the seed sellers ability to predict the newest and latest trends. They gather together some of the rarest and most expensive plants on the market, (including some that turn out to be financial and parental duds) AND make very intelligent crosses....something that is missing from the lower flying auctions. There is a lot more to being a successful seed seller than just getting lucky!!! Love seeing seed sellers get a fair return on their time and investment. They make our imaginations soar and provide us with lots of free entertainment. Too cool! Well done!!!