I think I got them from Jonna Sudenius in Belgium but I read she took her site down due to bad health. I did have low germination and the plants grew very slow. There wasn't a tuber formed by fall and they didn't transition to indoors. I even got a nice large healthy plant one year and it burned out before fall. It isn't that showy compared to other cosmos and has an effect similar to the new bidens. Bidens performs better. I have some photos of a mass planting on my computer. When I am on it again, I'll post them. However if you know how to use them to better effect, I'm all ears.