I would think that could be a very real possibility Ursula.

Ursula, did I read in another post that you have lovely alkaline soils? Maybe your martagons appreciate your soil, too.

Yes, Della, my martagon Lily is in a pot with alkaline soil. The last two seasons I have been purchasing acid soil for my Oriental Lilies and for my L. pardalinums. The L.O. were not doing bad in alkaline soil, but the pardalinum did not like it at all.

Southern Chile and its rain forests do have acid soil (where Lapageria rosea can still be found growing wild), but the central area, where I live, has alkaline soil.

I always say: in nature, the only unbroken rule is that "No rule is unbroken."
In other words, there are exceptions to every rule in nature.

One certainly can't dispute your empirical evidence, Ursula!
*** Bravo!

However, if you grew more than one white martagon seedling from that batch of seed, the seed must have come from somewhere (or someone) else besides me. I sent you Lilium martagon 'Claude Shride' open pollinated seed. Back then, I didn't have any white martagons at all, or even anything with white parentage. But the very strong vigor of 'Claude Shride' would help to explain your phenomenal success!

Rick, I have just one L. martagon plant, and I thought it came from seeds you sent me. That's why I did not individualize the origin of my Lilies when I posted the thread 'Buggycrazy, Leftwood, these are the Lilies I grew from your seeds' - I don't think I had seeds from other people than the two of you.

I sowed all my Lilium seeds when I came to live here (now 5 1/2 years ago). At that time I had no fence and thought it was great to live 'without boundaries'. Soon this proved to be a mistake. Cows and horses are allowed to freely roam around here and I thought they would be too shy to approach my house and my sowing pans (large styrofoam boxes, recycled from fish transport). Wrong! They even stepped into my sowing boxes, destroying most of them. One huge cow even dared to use the steps up to my terrace to eat the first liliums I had (purchased), bulbs included. That's why I am unable to tell who sent me the seeds that survived.

Now a question: do you think my white L. martagon plant could proceed from the 'Claude Shride' seeds you sent me? Another question: do you think my L. martagon would benefit from acid soil? It is a gorgeous Lily and I want to keep and pamper it. The only food my Lilums get is humus, naturally produced by rainworms in my alkaline soil.

BTW, this means ALL my Lilium seedlings germinated in alkaline soil, including L. pardalinum.

Unfortunately, the last pictures I took from this specific Lily last December, were on the memory card of my camera stolen from my car shortly before Christmas, and I had not downloaded them to the computer.

By the way, the upfacing light orange lily in that thread (#4 of the six photos) came from my seed of Lilium 'Prawn Tiger' x L.ilium maculatum var. wilsonii. That particular cross turned out to be terrible marriage. Your flower looks pretty nice, but most seedlings I grew produced homely flowers. The bulbs tasted good though!

do you think my white L. martagon plant could proceed from the 'Claude Shride' seeds you sent me?
--- Since there is only one, it's possible. But it would be a very unusual occurrence, so consider yourself lucky!

do you think my L. martagon would benefit from acid soil?
--- No. Martagons are very adaptive to soil pH. They will grow in acid or alkaline soils.

Rick, Lily Nbr 4 (your cross of Lilium 'Prawn Tiger' x Lilium maculatum var. wilsonii), grows quite tall but does not bend. Until today, I used to call it 'the salmon Lily with speckles' It's a beautiful colour! Have you given it a name?

Say, does this Lily come from your seeds?





I think every single seed I sowed germinated and grew healthy bulbs. I must have had 200+ seedlings, but have shared a lot of them. It is not as tall as the previous and before the last summer (the worst draught) it used to have up to 14 flowers per stem.

Next month my first Lilies will start to emerge! I can hardly wait to see my girls again. This time I will make sure to post a good picture of my white L. martagon (around December).

Thank you, Rick, for all the joy your seeds have been giving me!

The "tall" in the seedling comes from Prawn Tiger. Lilium maculatum is very short, usually 1.5-2ft (46-60cm). The strength of the stem comes from Prawn Tiger, also.

I think that other one also came from the same cross, but I can't be sure. None of my seedlings looked at all like that, but when you look at the parents, it would seem very likely. Often I hear stories from breeders about how there was just one seedling that was very different from the rest in the same cross. And that one is way better than anything I grew. Lucky you!
Prawn Tiger and L. maculatum var. wilsonii


We always like to see the results from seeds we distribute; thanks so much for showing them.

Leftwood said: Often I hear stories from breeders about how there was just one seedling that was very different from the rest in the same cross. And that one is way better than anything I grew.

I hear it quite a bit as well; Mak Breeding especially. Jan de Graaff, way back in the old days, must have suspected this phenomenon also, because once he was 'onto' something, he would carpet bomb 40 acres with seedlings, looking for that one standout.

I'm still waiting for that 'one outstanding'!

Thank you for your explanations, Rick.

Based upon them, I would say the white martagon Lily must be 'that one different in the batch' from your 'Claude Shride' seeds

Prawn Tiger and L. maculatum var. wilsonii look like the perfect parents of my Lily NN. Do you want to name it? I want to add that this Lily is quite a prolific bulblet producer. On the other hand, they are not great spontaneous (OP) seed producers. I have had only a few seed pods, containing mainly .... chaffe.

I'm not sure and tend to think that the two salmon/orange Lilies proceed from the same cross, because they were sowed (or is it sown?) in different seed trays. When I re-planted them, there were originally some 8 seedlings of Nbr. 4, clearly all the same characteristics, and the 200+ of the pictures above (Lily NN) have all the same characteristics as well - no mixes of the two of them.

I love Lily World and this Lily Forum!

Ursula, I agree with you on all accounts.
This lily

is from my seed - Prawn Tiger x L. maculatum var. wilsonii. The stem bulbils are also a trait from Prawn Tiger. Name it whatever you like. The seed is from me, but you are the one who grew them.

But since the other

came from a different seed tray and especially because you grew many like it (and I had none like it), then it is not from the same cross. I think that seed it must have come from Buggycrazy, too. I recorded the seed I had sent you, and no other seeds I gave you could produce that kind of a lily.

Uuuuups, Rick, my Lily Nbr 4 (Prawn Tiger x L. maculatum var. wilsonii) does not produce bulbils.

Lisa, if you are following this thread, I kindly ask for your input. Thanks!